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Math Teachers Chatboard

Degree requirements

by Todd

Aug 16, 2012

Hi all - I'm hoping some of the current math & computer science teachers can give me some good advice. I originally started my degree in 1990 at Lenoir-Rhyne University in NC. I started out with a Math & Physics dual major and completeed Calc 2 and Physics 2 honors before I became lazy and switched majors. To make a long story short, I switched majors numerous times, ended up joining the Army, and here I am 19 years later...still 18 credits shy of my degree. I have plenty of time to finish before retiring from the military. My question is this: With a goal of teaching middle or high school math, physics, and/or computer science when I get out of the Army, would it be viable to go ahead and consolidate my various courses into a BS in Liberal Studies? If not, would a degree in computer science be preferable?

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Rich/CA/Math On 8/17/12, Math Teach to OP wrote:

> Of course, too many administrators don't care if their math > teachers can't describe the difference between a Jacobian and > a Wronskian when teaching y = mx+b. And we wonder why this > nation lags others in math proficiency.

On the one hand I am sympathetic to your point of view...See MoreOn 8/17/12, Math Teach to OP wrote:

> Of course, too many administrators don't care if their math > teachers can't describe the difference between a Jacobian and > a Wronskian when teaching y = mx+b. And we wonder why this > nation lags others in math proficiency.

On the one hand I am sympathetic to your point of view and am a strong proponent for subject matter competency being a necessary (but not sufficient) condition for good teaching. But really? How does knowing the difference between a Jacobian and a Wronskian inform the teaching approach at any likely 7-12 math level?

Now I was a math major (Bachelors, no Masters) and I believe that teachers (especially math) should know a lot more than the level they teach. As I tell my students, I am not just trying to get them to be able to solve today's problem, I am trying to prepare them for the next 5 years of math. I present a lot of material in algebra and intro to algebra using the structure of a ring and a field without using the words. Ie., subtraction is not a real operation, it is a shorthand for adding the additive inverse. Same with division being shorthand for multiplying by the multiplicative inverse.

Most of my colleagues (who were not math majors) aren't even aware of this. But once I convince the students, lots of things become really easy. Like why the associative and commutative properties don't work for subtraction and division. Like why addition and subtraction have the same priority and multiplication and division have the same priority in the order of operations rules.

But Wronskians and Jacobians to teach slope-intercept? I don't get the connection (and yes, I confess that, math major though I was, I had to look them up). And I'm not sure that if more math teachers knew the difference our national math proficiency would cease to lag. But perhaps you were exercising hyperbole?

Anyway, I hope you get a job soon. We need math teachers who know and care about math. When you get interviews I'd recommend that you try to show them more teaching skills and less advanced math that they don't understand. They (admins) get easily intimidated. Best of luck to you.

Switzerland produced a toiler By the name of Leonhard Euler He could solve most any query In the field of number theory - Mark Dreyfoos

Aug 17, 2012

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Math Teach Yeah, Rich, I DID get carried away with that one, and I agree, Wornskians and Jacobians have nothing to do with linear eq's. I guess what I was trying to say is that administrators don't care about teachers' math proficiency. During every interview I attended,not once was I asked about my math background.

But I AM sick of having to get in...See MoreYeah, Rich, I DID get carried away with that one, and I agree, Wornskians and Jacobians have nothing to do with linear eq's. I guess what I was trying to say is that administrators don't care about teachers' math proficiency. During every interview I attended,not once was I asked about my math background.

But I AM sick of having to get in line with people who know little math, failed their Praxis 2 twelve times until they got "certified" with no interest in the subject other than getting a job.

On 8/17/12, Rich/CA/Math wrote: > On 8/17/12, Math Teach to OP wrote: > >> Of course, too many administrators don't care if their math >> teachers can't describe the difference between a Jacobian and >> a Wronskian when teaching y = mx+b. And we wonder why this >> nation lags others in math proficiency. > > On the one hand I am sympathetic to your point of view and am a > strong proponent for subject matter competency being a necessary > (but not sufficient) condition for good teaching. But really? > How does knowing the difference between a Jacobian and a Wronskian > inform the teaching approach at any likely 7-12 math level? > > Now I was a math major (Bachelors, no Masters) and I believe that > teachers (especially math) should know a lot more than the level > they teach. As I tell my students, I am not just trying to get > them to be able to solve today's problem, I am trying to prepare > them for the next 5 years of math. I present a lot of material in > algebra and intro to algebra using the structure of a ring and a > field without using the words. Ie., subtraction is not a real > operation, it is a shorthand for adding the additive inverse. > Same with division being shorthand for multiplying by the > multiplicative inverse. > > Most of my colleagues (who were not math majors) aren't even aware > of this. But once I convince the students, lots of things become > really easy. Like why the associative and commutative properties > don't work for subtraction and division. Like why addition and > subtraction have the same priority and multiplication and division > have the same priority in the order of operations rules. > > But Wronskians and Jacobians to teach slope-intercept? I don't > get the connection (and yes, I confess that, math major though I > was, I had to look them up). And I'm not sure that if more math > teachers knew the difference our national math proficiency would > cease to lag. But perhaps you were exercising hyperbole? > > Anyway, I hope you get a job soon. We need math teachers who know > and care about math. When you get interviews I'd recommend that > you try to show them more teaching skills and less advanced math > that they don't understand. They (admins) get easily intimidated. > Best of luck to you. > > Switzerland produced a toiler > By the name of Leonhard Euler > He could solve most any query > In the field of number theory > - Mark Dreyfoos

Aug 18, 2012

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Rich/CA/Math On 8/18/12, Math Teach wrote: > > Yeah, Rich, I DID get carried away with that one, and I agree, > Wornskians and Jacobians have nothing to do with linear eq's. I > guess what I was trying to say is that administrators don't care > about teachers' math proficiency. During every interview I > attended,not once was I asked about my ...See More

Aug 18, 2012

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Todd Thank you all very much for the input - I certainly appreciate it!

I know what you mean about teachers who simply want a job. Observing how my son has been taught math (rather poorly) has re-ignited my passion for it. I have had to undo some his teachers' damage over the years, as many seem to only teach the 'how' and not the 'why'. They ...See More

Aug 20, 2012

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Math Teach So, you DO want to major in math. I had you figured for one of those others sneaking in through the back door. Math degree IS the way to go.

Yes, there are a LOT of online resources available. Have you checked out MIT's opencourseware? They have videotaped courses on Linear (Matrix) Algebra, Diffy-Qs and the Calculus. There is even a free ...See MoreSo, you DO want to major in math. I had you figured for one of those others sneaking in through the back door. Math degree IS the way to go.

Yes, there are a LOT of online resources available. Have you checked out MIT's opencourseware? They have videotaped courses on Linear (Matrix) Algebra, Diffy-Qs and the Calculus. There is even a free book on the Calculus available for download (it's written by Gilbert Strang, the Lin Alg prof).

Other schools have video courses as well (UC Stanford, for ex.)

On 8/20/12, Todd wrote: > > Thank you all very much for the input - I certainly appreciate > it! > > I know what you mean about teachers who simply want a job. > Observing how my son has been taught math (rather poorly) has > re-ignited my passion for it. I have had to undo some his > teachers' damage over the years, as many seem to only teach > the 'how' and not the 'why'. They were teaching him to plug > numbers into a formula without teaching why the formula exists > in the first place. > > Growing up on the Space Coast of Florida with plenty of > engineers and NASA workers, I was lucky to have fantastic > teachers throughout my childhood...people with a real passion > and excitement for math and science who truly cared and knew > how to prepare us for the next 5 years of study (as one of you > emphasized). > > When it comes to continuing my major in mathematics, I'm > worried that picking up where I left off might be extremely > difficult, if not impossible, since I took Calc 2 back in > 1991. Any advice on that? Most colleges will not allow you > to re-take the same courses. > > > On 8/16/12, Todd wrote: >> Hi all - I'm hoping some of the current math & computer >> science teachers can give me some good advice. I originally >> started my degree in 1990 at Lenoir-Rhyne University in NC. >> I started out with a Math & Physics dual major and >> completeed Calc 2 and Physics 2 honors before I became lazy >> and switched majors. To make a long story short, I switched >> majors numerous times, ended up joining the Army, and here >> I am 19 years later...still 18 credits shy of my degree. I >> have plenty of time to finish before retiring from the >> military. My question is this: With a goal of teaching >> middle or high school math, physics, and/or computer >> science when I get out of the Army, would it be viable to >> go ahead and consolidate my various courses into a BS in >> Liberal Studies? If not, would a degree in computer science >> be preferable?

Aug 20, 2012

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