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student evaluations

by adjunct

Jul 19, 2013

I have a theory about student evaluations, which is that the more mature, motivated students tend to get more out of the course and give you higher evaluations. The students who come late, skip class, goof off during class, miss assignments, etc. tend not to do well, and as a result they get less out of the class, get a poor grade and, because they are too immature to take responsibility, give the instructor a poor or mediocre evaluation. My college used to use handwritten anonymous student evaluations, and a few weeks later the forms would be returned to you. Sometimes you could recognize the handwriting and this supported my theory. The college changed to computerized evals, but this summer I taught a noncredit course with handwritten evals and the college did not require the instructor to leave the room and have a student collect and turn them in. Of course, the one mediocre eval was from the student who came late to class, returned late from breaks, texted during class,etc. This is...See More

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Vet Teacher On 8/03/13, Prof Phil wrote:

There's an interent contradiction in teaching - society expects us to be the frontline of society's judgment - if we didn't give grades in high school, everyone could get into Harvard. If we didn't give grades in college, everyone could go to Harvard Law School, Harvard's Business School or Harvard Med.
...See MoreOn 8/03/13, Prof Phil wrote:

There's an interent contradiction in teaching - society expects us to be the frontline of society's judgment - if we didn't give grades in high school, everyone could get into Harvard. If we didn't give grades in college, everyone could go to Harvard Law School, Harvard's Business School or Harvard Med.

But there's not enough room for everybody at Harvard and no society can be one of only lawyers, MBAs and doctors. American likes to say of itself that everyone here can by anything they want to be but the plain truth is that not everyone can go to Harvard. Of course that's a metaphor...

So how do you be a good teacher yet fulfill society's expections of teachers and keep the bar raised and hold firm against the increasing push of the masses trying to get to the top?

I could write volumes on that even though the volumes I'd write might not have the defintive answer to the question but to say - it's not easy.

But the posts that precede this one and essentially dismiss the 'ratings' of teachers don't not speak to the truth of the matter - even if it is true that the rateyourprof. etc. sites are not valid. And the truth of the matter is - there are bad teachers out there and at every level. Is every teacher bad? Hardly. Are there bad teachers?

Yes there are. And they're not just deemed bad because they're hard or give low grades. To believe that's the case is like believing in unicorns and Santa Claus. There are bad doctors out there. Not every one is bad by any means but there bad doctors out there. There are doctors out there who lose their licenses.

there are bad car mechanics, bad lawyers, bad accountants and incompetent people in every profession and occupation. No profession or occupation is immune.

While you spend time and energy refuting the infant ratings sites, what method would you suggest for ferreting out the bad teachers? If you deny they exist, that denial is a part of the problem rather than a part of any solution to it.

Society deserves accountability for the billions of dollars it spends on education even while we as teachers say society does not spend enough. I'm a teacher who freely admits I've seen bad teachers - sadly I've even seen one or two who were near to criminal in their behavior toward students. Almost as often I've seen schools look the other way when they've got a bad teacher in their midst.

Your statements about the ratetheprof. suggest there are no bad teachers out there. The ratetheprof. website may not help get rid of bad teachers but it's sadly foolish to deny their existence.

> On 7/26/13, Prof Phil wrote: >> On 7/19/13, adjunct wrote: >>> >>> I have a theory about student evaluations, which is that >>> the more mature, motivated students tend to get more out of >>> the course and give you higher evaluations. The students who >>> come late, skip class, goof off during class, miss >>> assignments, etc. tend not to do well, >>> and as a result they get less out of the class, get a poor >>> grade and, because they are too immature to take >>> responsibility, give the instructor a poor or mediocre >>> evaluation. My college used to use handwritten anonymous >>> student evaluations, and a few weeks later the forms would >>> be returned to you. Sometimes you could recognize the >>> handwriting and this supported my theory. The college >>> changed to computerized evals, but this summer I taught a >>> noncredit course with handwritten evals and the college did >>> not require the instructor to leave the room and have a >>> student collect and turn them in. Of course, the one >>> mediocre eval was from the student who came late to class, >>> returned late from breaks, texted during class,etc. This is >>> not a problem when you have only one or two students of this >>> type. But when you occasionally luck into a class with more >>> squirrelly students than usual, it can reflect poorly on you >>> in your college's estimation. I do not like this. >> >> My 30+ years of experience at the college level supports your >> theory. I will also add that it seems to be either the most >> satisfied or least satisfied who report on the "rate your >> professor" websites. If a professor has very few ratings they >> are probably not accurate or reliable...probably from one >> extreme or another. > > Just to add something interesting, about 10 years ago it turned > out a student in one of my classes happened to own the most > widely used "rate your professor" websites for our campus. He > revealed that to me and asked if he could buy me lunch and pick > my brain on how to improve it. One of my suggestions was to add > a place where a reviewer could put down the grade they received > in the course. My belief is that for several reasons the opinion > of a student with a low grade in a class is not as useful as the > opinion of one who gets a high grade. He agreed and added the > field to the website. Most students supply the grade in their > review. I think it added credibility to the site. > > On another note, I have looked at about a half-dozen of these > sites over the years. They range from basing their evaluations on > "how easy" and instructor is to "how much you will learn." The > reviews for the same instructor can vary greatly between these > two sites because of the criteria used. I now tell my students > that if they use these sites to find the ones that talk about > how much you can learn. > > My theory is that if you try to take all the easy teachers in the > long run you spend more time because you end up self-teaching > yourself stuff later on (especially in technical majors). I have > expressed this theory to students and many agree.

Aug 9, 2013

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adjunct Of course there are bad teachers out there; In my grad school I had an abominable teacher; he was an adjunct who showed little evidence of preparation or knowledge of the subject; occasionally he showed a powerpoint that had only basic information that I had already learned in introductory courses. On a couple of occasions, he talked for more than ...See MoreOf course there are bad teachers out there; In my grad school I had an abominable teacher; he was an adjunct who showed little evidence of preparation or knowledge of the subject; occasionally he showed a powerpoint that had only basic information that I had already learned in introductory courses. On a couple of occasions, he talked for more than an hour about some supposedly amusing incidents at the high school where he taught full-time. The incidents had nothing to do with the content of the course. He collected the evaluation forms himself so I doubt that any deservedly negative comments reached the department head. I was so concerned that I spoke to the department head about him, but the teacher was popular with the younger students because of his "cool" demeanor, so as far as I know he is still there.

In the case of a conscientious teacher who is not a bad teacher, but with whom a few students may find fault, what good does it do to submit it anonymously at the end of the term when you were unaware of the student's concern, and it is too late to try to address it with that student? When you get the anonymous comments back, you feel blindsided because you thought the students were okay with the course and with you. I would much rather that the student speak to e directly if they have a complaint, since I present myself as a responsive teacher who respects their opinions and tries to meet their needs, although I do of course have some nonnegotiable policies. Since I understand that that is difficult for students to do, I am working on creating student feedback forms that I will pass out occasionally throughout the semester that students may fill out anonymously if they like. If anyone uses anything like that and would like to pass along their suggestions, thanks in advance.

as far as the eval

On 8/09/13, Vet Teacher wrote: > On 8/03/13, Prof Phil wrote: > > There's an interent contradiction in teaching - society expects us > to be the frontline of society's judgment - if we didn't give grades > in high school, everyone could get into Harvard. If we didn't give > grades in college, everyone could go to Harvard Law School, > Harvard's Business School or Harvard Med. > > But there's not enough room for everybody at Harvard and no society > can be one of only lawyers, MBAs and doctors. American likes to say > of itself that everyone here can by anything they want to be but the > plain truth is that not everyone can go to Harvard. Of course that's > a metaphor... > > So how do you be a good teacher yet fulfill society's expections of > teachers and keep the bar raised and hold firm against the > increasing push of the masses trying to get to the top? > > I could write volumes on that even though the volumes I'd write > might not have the defintive answer to the question but to say - > it's not easy. > > But the posts that precede this one and essentially dismiss > the 'ratings' of teachers don't not speak to the truth of the > matter - even if it is true that the rateyourprof. etc. sites are > not valid. And the truth of the matter is - there are bad teachers > out there and at every level. Is every teacher bad? Hardly. Are > there bad teachers? > > Yes there are. And they're not just deemed bad because they're hard > or give low grades. To believe that's the case is like believing in > unicorns and Santa Claus. There are bad doctors out there. Not every > one is bad by any means but there bad doctors out there. There are > doctors out there who lose their licenses. > > there are bad car mechanics, bad lawyers, bad accountants and > incompetent people in every profession and occupation. No profession > or occupation is immune. > > While you spend time and energy refuting the infant ratings sites, > what method would you suggest for ferreting out the bad teachers? If > you deny they exist, that denial is a part of the problem rather > than a part of any solution to it. > > Society deserves accountability for the billions of dollars it > spends on education even while we as teachers say society does not > spend enough. I'm a teacher who freely admits I've seen bad > teachers - sadly I've even seen one or two who were near to criminal > in their behavior toward students. Almost as often I've seen schools > look the other way when they've got a bad teacher in their midst. > > Your statements about the ratetheprof. suggest there are no bad > teachers out there. The ratetheprof. website may not help get rid of > bad teachers but it's sadly foolish to deny their existence. > >> On 7/26/13, Prof Phil wrote: >>> On 7/19/13, adjunct wrote: >>>> >>>> I have a theory about student evaluations, which is that >>>> the more mature, motivated students tend to get more out of >>>> the course and give you higher evaluations. The students who >>>> come late, skip class, goof off during class, miss >>>> assignments, etc. tend not to do well, >>>> and as a result they get less out of the class, get a poor >>>> grade and, because they are too immature to take >>>> responsibility, give the instructor a poor or mediocre >>>> evaluation. My college used to use handwritten anonymous >>>> student evaluations, and a few weeks later the forms would >>>> be returned to you. Sometimes you could recognize the >>>> handwriting and this supported my theory. The college >>>> changed to computerized evals, but this summer I taught a >>>> noncredit course with handwritten evals and the college did >>>> not require the instructor to leave the room and have a >>>> student collect and turn them in. Of course, the one >>>> mediocre eval was from the student who came late to class, >>>> returned late from breaks, texted during class,etc. This is >>>> not a problem when you have only one or two students of this >>>> type. But when you occasionally luck into a class with more >>>> squirrelly students than usual, it can reflect poorly on you >>>> in your college's estimation. I do not like this. >>> >>> My 30+ years of experience at the college level supports your >>> theory. I will also add that it seems to be either the most >>> satisfied or least satisfied who report on the "rate your >>> professor" websites. If a professor has very few ratings they >>> are probably not accurate or reliable...probably from one >>> extreme or another. >> >> Just to add something interesting, about 10 years ago it turned >> out a student in one of my classes happened to own the most >> widely used "rate your professor" websites for our campus. > He >> revealed that to me and asked if he could buy me lunch and pick >> my brain on how to improve it. One of my suggestions was to add >> a place where a reviewer could put down the grade they received >> in the course. My belief is that for several reasons the > opinion >> of a student with a low grade in a class is not as useful as the >> opinion of one who gets a high grade. He agreed and added > the >> field to the website. Most students supply the grade in their >> review. I think it added credibility to the site. >> >> On another note, I have looked at about a half-dozen of these >> sites over the years. They range from basing their evaluations on >> "how easy" and instructor is to "how much you will learn." The >> reviews for the same instructor can vary greatly between these >> two sites because of the criteria used. I now tell my students >> that if they use these sites to find the ones that talk about >> how much you can learn. >> >> My theory is that if you try to take all the easy teachers in the >> long run you spend more time because you end up self-teaching >> yourself stuff later on (especially in technical majors). I have >> expressed this theory to students and many agree.

Aug 10, 2013

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Prof Phil On 8/09/13, Vet Teacher wrote: > On 8/03/13, Prof Phil wrote: > > There's an interent contradiction in teaching - society expects us > to be the frontline of society's judgment - if we didn't give grades > in high school, everyone could get into Harvard. If we didn't give > grades in college, everyone could go to Harvard Law Scho...See MoreOn 8/09/13, Vet Teacher wrote: > On 8/03/13, Prof Phil wrote: > > There's an interent contradiction in teaching - society expects us > to be the frontline of society's judgment - if we didn't give grades > in high school, everyone could get into Harvard. If we didn't give > grades in college, everyone could go to Harvard Law School, > Harvard's Business School or Harvard Med. > > But there's not enough room for everybody at Harvard and no society > can be one of only lawyers, MBAs and doctors. American likes to say > of itself that everyone here can by anything they want to be but the > plain truth is that not everyone can go to Harvard. Of course that's > a metaphor... > > So how do you be a good teacher yet fulfill society's expections of > teachers and keep the bar raised and hold firm against the > increasing push of the masses trying to get to the top? > > I could write volumes on that even though the volumes I'd write > might not have the defintive answer to the question but to say - > it's not easy. > > But the posts that precede this one and essentially dismiss > the 'ratings' of teachers don't not speak to the truth of the > matter - even if it is true that the rateyourprof. etc. sites are > not valid. And the truth of the matter is - there are bad teachers > out there and at every level. Is every teacher bad? Hardly. Are > there bad teachers? > > Yes there are. And they're not just deemed bad because they're hard > or give low grades. To believe that's the case is like believing in > unicorns and Santa Claus. There are bad doctors out there. Not every > one is bad by any means but there bad doctors out there. There are > doctors out there who lose their licenses. > > there are bad car mechanics, bad lawyers, bad accountants and > incompetent people in every profession and occupation. No profession > or occupation is immune. > > While you spend time and energy refuting the infant ratings sites, > what method would you suggest for ferreting out the bad teachers? If > you deny they exist, that denial is a part of the problem rather > than a part of any solution to it. > > Society deserves accountability for the billions of dollars it > spends on education even while we as teachers say society does not > spend enough. I'm a teacher who freely admits I've seen bad > teachers - sadly I've even seen one or two who were near to criminal > in their behavior toward students. Almost as often I've seen schools > look the other way when they've got a bad teacher in their midst. > > Your statements about the ratetheprof. suggest there are no bad > teachers out there. The ratetheprof. website may not help get rid of > bad teachers but it's sadly foolish to deny their existence. > >> On 7/26/13, Prof Phil wrote: >>> On 7/19/13, adjunct wrote: >>>> >>>> I have a theory about student evaluations, which is that >>>> the more mature, motivated students tend to get more out of >>>> the course and give you higher evaluations. The students who >>>> come late, skip class, goof off during class, miss >>>> assignments, etc. tend not to do well, >>>> and as a result they get less out of the class, get a poor >>>> grade and, because they are too immature to take >>>> responsibility, give the instructor a poor or mediocre >>>> evaluation. My college used to use handwritten anonymous >>>> student evaluations, and a few weeks later the forms would >>>> be returned to you. Sometimes you could recognize the >>>> handwriting and this supported my theory. The college >>>> changed to computerized evals, but this summer I taught a >>>> noncredit course with handwritten evals and the college did >>>> not require the instructor to leave the room and have a >>>> student collect and turn them in. Of course, the one >>>> mediocre eval was from the student who came late to class, >>>> returned late from breaks, texted during class,etc. This is >>>> not a problem when you have only one or two students of this >>>> type. But when you occasionally luck into a class with more >>>> squirrelly students than usual, it can reflect poorly on you >>>> in your college's estimation. I do not like this. >>> >>> My 30+ years of experience at the college level supports your >>> theory. I will also add that it seems to be either the most >>> satisfied or least satisfied who report on the "rate your >>> professor" websites. If a professor has very few ratings they >>> are probably not accurate or reliable...probably from one >>> extreme or another. >> >> Just to add something interesting, about 10 years ago it turned >> out a student in one of my classes happened to own the most >> widely used "rate your professor" websites for our campus. > He >> revealed that to me and asked if he could buy me lunch and pick >> my brain on how to improve it. One of my suggestions was to add >> a place where a reviewer could put down the grade they received >> in the course. My belief is that for several reasons the > opinion >> of a student with a low grade in a class is not as useful as the >> opinion of one who gets a high grade. He agreed and added > the >> field to the website. Most students supply the grade in their >> review. I think it added credibility to the site. >> >> On another note, I have looked at about a half-dozen of these >> sites over the years. They range from basing their evaluations on >> "how easy" and instructor is to "how much you will learn." The >> reviews for the same instructor can vary greatly between these >> two sites because of the criteria used. I now tell my students >> that if they use these sites to find the ones that talk about >> how much you can learn. >> >> My theory is that if you try to take all the easy teachers in the >> long run you spend more time because you end up self-teaching >> yourself stuff later on (especially in technical majors). I have >> expressed this theory to students and many agree.

I agree with most of what Wife of Prof says.

Addressing adjunct: my suggestion to students who use the "Rate Your Professor" websites is to look at the criteria for the website and to also be careful if there are only a few ratings. If a teacher is not doing a good job of teaching, the serious students will say so in abundance.

We have one adjunct and one tenured faculty member in my department that, in my humble opinion, are not teaching the material. They both are easy graders and give lots of A's. They get good instructional assessment evaluations from many students because they like the easy grades. If you read the "what did you learn" website the ratings are not so good.

I estimate that roughly 80% of the teachers at my institution are hard working teachers who teach adequately and earn their pay. 20% are marginal or undeserving. How does that compare to doctors, lawyers, engineering, managers, and other professions? I don't know. Getting rid of lecturers who are poor teachers is not that hard, but getting rid of tenure-track instructors who are poor teachers is difficult.

My department is addressing the quality of teaching issue by making it very clear to our new tenure-track faculty in their RTP criteria and by our actions. From the very beginning we are visiting their classes and doing what we can to help them from develop. We are making it clear we want them to succeed and are monitoring them so we can help. So far that is working out well. Letters written by professors based on their observations are used in evaluating for tenure and promotion...in addition to the traditional instructional assessment surveys.

I also think a big reason that genuinely bad teachers survive is due to weak-kneed administrators who don't have the guts to do anything when presented with a strong case. At our campus HR is part of that problem also.

Aug 10, 2013

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Wife of Prof (Retired) It is great to hear that at least some colleges of higher learning are taking the bull by the horns to make undergraduate teaching count in quality and for tenure and promotion. However, it is still the exception to the rule because universities today are being run by outside interests in many cases or having to bend to outside interests as higher ...See MoreIt is great to hear that at least some colleges of higher learning are taking the bull by the horns to make undergraduate teaching count in quality and for tenure and promotion. However, it is still the exception to the rule because universities today are being run by outside interests in many cases or having to bend to outside interests as higher education is 'big bucks' from the sports domains to the research centers. A stupid secretary happened to see the criteria that is used in his department to review the annual reports which interested professors take a great deal of time to write up. Well, it was "she" - secretary to the chair who had the rating system and it was strictly" bean counting of how many papers, what kind of papers, research contracts, amounts etc. So basically not even the chair in his "dysfunctional" department saw what one did - not to worry as he views it as "his fiefdom" anyhow.

The sad fact is that families have so little idea in many institutions what little interest there is in teaching or preparation for actual classes AND yet the loans are breaking many a student's back. Now this is not happening in every place, but it is well worth it for families to dig a little in researching their teen's options. Try and talk to students who are in final year or recent graduates to feel how prepared they were for the job scene or graduate programs.

On 8/10/13, Prof Phil wrote: > On 8/09/13, Vet Teacher wrote: >> On 8/03/13, Prof Phil wrote: >> >> There's an interent contradiction in teaching - society expects us >> to be the frontline of society's judgment - if we didn't give grades >> in high school, everyone could get into Harvard. If we didn't give >> grades in college, everyone could go to Harvard Law School, >> Harvard's Business School or Harvard Med. >> >> But there's not enough room for everybody at Harvard and no society >> can be one of only lawyers, MBAs and doctors. American likes to say >> of itself that everyone here can by anything they want to be but the >> plain truth is that not everyone can go to Harvard. Of course that's >> a metaphor... >> >> So how do you be a good teacher yet fulfill society's expections of >> teachers and keep the bar raised and hold firm against the >> increasing push of the masses trying to get to the top? >> >> I could write volumes on that even though the volumes I'd write >> might not have the defintive answer to the question but to say - >> it's not easy. >> >> But the posts that precede this one and essentially dismiss >> the 'ratings' of teachers don't not speak to the truth of the >> matter - even if it is true that the rateyourprof. etc. sites are >> not valid. And the truth of the matter is - there are bad teachers >> out there and at every level. Is every teacher bad? Hardly. Are >> there bad teachers? >> >> Yes there are. And they're not just deemed bad because they're hard >> or give low grades. To believe that's the case is like believing in >> unicorns and Santa Claus. There are bad doctors out there. Not every >> one is bad by any means but there bad doctors out there. There are >> doctors out there who lose their licenses. >> >> there are bad car mechanics, bad lawyers, bad accountants and >> incompetent people in every profession and occupation. No profession >> or occupation is immune. >> >> While you spend time and energy refuting the infant ratings sites, >> what method would you suggest for ferreting out the bad teachers? If >> you deny they exist, that denial is a part of the problem rather >> than a part of any solution to it. >> >> Society deserves accountability for the billions of dollars it >> spends on education even while we as teachers say society does not >> spend enough. I'm a teacher who freely admits I've seen bad >> teachers - sadly I've even seen one or two who were near to criminal >> in their behavior toward students. Almost as often I've seen schools >> look the other way when they've got a bad teacher in their midst. >> >> Your statements about the ratetheprof. suggest there are no bad >> teachers out there. The ratetheprof. website may not help get rid of >> bad teachers but it's sadly foolish to deny their existence. >> >>> On 7/26/13, Prof Phil wrote: >>>> On 7/19/13, adjunct wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have a theory about student evaluations, which is that >>>>> the more mature, motivated students tend to get more out of >>>>> the course and give you higher evaluations. The students who >>>>> come late, skip class, goof off during class, miss >>>>> assignments, etc. tend not to do well, >>>>> and as a result they get less out of the class, get a poor >>>>> grade and, because they are too immature to take >>>>> responsibility, give the instructor a poor or mediocre >>>>> evaluation. My college used to use handwritten anonymous >>>>> student evaluations, and a few weeks later the forms would >>>>> be returned to you. Sometimes you could recognize the >>>>> handwriting and this supported my theory. The college >>>>> changed to computerized evals, but this summer I taught a >>>>> noncredit course with handwritten evals and the college did >>>>> not require the instructor to leave the room and have a >>>>> student collect and turn them in. Of course, the one >>>>> mediocre eval was from the student who came late to class, >>>>> returned late from breaks, texted during class,etc. This is >>>>> not a problem when you have only one or two students of this >>>>> type. But when you occasionally luck into a class with more >>>>> squirrelly students than usual, it can reflect poorly on you >>>>> in your college's estimation. I do not like this. >>>> >>>> My 30+ years of experience at the college level supports your >>>> theory. I will also add that it seems to be either the most >>>> satisfied or least satisfied who report on the "rate your >>>> professor" websites. If a professor has very few ratings they >>>> are probably not accurate or reliable...probably from one >>>> extreme or another. >>> >>> Just to add something interesting, about 10 years ago it turned >>> out a student in one of my classes happened to own the most >>> widely used "rate your professor" websites for our campus. >> He >>> revealed that to me and asked if he could buy me lunch and pick >>> my brain on how to improve it. One of my suggestions was to add >>> a place where a reviewer could put down the grade they received >>> in the course. My belief is that for several reasons the >> opinion >>> of a student with a low grade in a class is not as useful as the >>> opinion of one who gets a high grade. He agreed and added >> the >>> field to the website. Most students supply the grade in their >>> review. I think it added credibility to the site. >>> >>> On another note, I have looked at about a half-dozen of these >>> sites over the years. They range from basing their evaluations on >>> "how easy" and instructor is to "how much you will learn." The >>> reviews for the same instructor can vary greatly between these >>> two sites because of the criteria used. I now tell my students >>> that if they use these sites to find the ones that talk about >>> how much you can learn. >>> >>> My theory is that if you try to take all the easy teachers in the >>> long run you spend more time because you end up self-teaching >>> yourself stuff later on (especially in technical majors). I have >>> expressed this theory to students and many agree. > > I agree with most of what Wife of Prof says. > > Addressing adjunct: my suggestion to students who use the "Rate Your > Professor" websites is to look at the criteria for the website and to > also be careful if there are only a few ratings. If a teacher is not > doing a good job of teaching, the serious students will say so in > abundance. > > We have one adjunct and one tenured faculty member in my department > that, in my humble opinion, are not teaching the material. They both > are easy graders and give lots of A's. They get good instructional > assessment evaluations from many students because they like the easy > grades. If you read the "what did you learn" website the ratings are > not so good. > > I estimate that roughly 80% of the teachers at my institution are hard > working teachers who teach adequately and earn their pay. 20% are > marginal or undeserving. How does that compare to doctors, lawyers, > engineering, managers, and other professions? I don't know. Getting rid > of lecturers who are poor teachers is not that hard, but getting rid > of tenure-track instructors who are poor teachers is difficult. > > My department is addressing the quality of teaching issue by making it > very clear to our new tenure-track faculty in their RTP criteria and by > our actions. From the very beginning we are visiting their classes and > doing what we can to help them from develop. We are making it clear we > want them to succeed and are monitoring them so we can help. So far > that is working out well. Letters written by professors based on their > observations are used in evaluating for tenure and promotion...in > addition to the traditional instructional assessment surveys. > > I also think a big reason that genuinely bad teachers survive is due to > weak-kneed administrators who don't have the guts to do anything when > presented with a strong case. At our campus HR is part of that problem > also. > >

Aug 16, 2013

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Prof Phil On 8/16/13, Wife of Prof (Retired) wrote: > > It is great to hear that at least some colleges of higher learning are > taking the bull by the horns to make undergraduate teaching count in > quality and for tenure and promotion. However, it is still the exception > to the rule because universities today are being run by outside intere...See MoreOn 8/16/13, Wife of Prof (Retired) wrote: > > It is great to hear that at least some colleges of higher learning are > taking the bull by the horns to make undergraduate teaching count in > quality and for tenure and promotion. However, it is still the exception > to the rule because universities today are being run by outside interests > in many cases or having to bend to outside interests as higher education is > 'big bucks' from the sports domains to the research centers. A stupid > secretary happened to see the criteria that is used in his department to > review the annual reports which interested professors take a great deal of > time to write up. Well, it was "she" - secretary to the chair who had the > rating system and it was strictly" bean counting of how many papers, what > kind of papers, research contracts, amounts etc. So basically not even the > chair in his "dysfunctional" department saw what one did - not to worry as > he views it as "his fiefdom" anyhow. > > The sad fact is that families have so little idea in many institutions what > little interest there is in teaching or preparation for actual classes AND > yet the loans are breaking many a student's back. Now this is not > happening in every place, but it is well worth it for families to dig a > little in researching their teen's options. Try and talk to students who > are in final year or recent graduates to feel how prepared they were for > the job scene or graduate programs. >

In my area we have lots of parents (especially Asian families) who feel that the name of the institution their child goes to is super important and they are willing to pay lots of money to send their child there. These parents are not adequately concerned about the learning that takes place or making sure their child is in the right major. I know that many expensive private institutions and major public research universities do a great job with undergraduates, but as mentioned above, many large research-centered institutions are not really devoted to undergraduate teaching. When I was in grad school at one of these research universities, I remember a faculty member even telling me that he and most of the others did not care about their undergraduate program--only the grad program.

One thing in favor of these institutions is they do get to pick from the cream of the crop of high school applicants. Many of these students are going to do well in college in spite of the teaching and go on to be very successful.

As long as parents are willing to pay for the name and employers hire based on name, a lot of these quality problems will continue.

Aug 19, 2013

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