Professional Readings Chatboard

Join Teachers.Net

Chatboards

Recent Groups

Prof Readings

MEMBERS

2 Members

+ Join Group

Pinned Posts

ALLAll Teachers

Teachers.Net LIVE CHAT Support group - Tues eve!

Featured Jobs

Full-timeMontessori Teacher

Maple Ridge, British Columbia, Canada

TemporaryTeachers, rural schools

Peace River North School District

Full-timeHead Teacher: 2nd/3rd Grades – Mills College Children’s School

Mills College

Teaching Jobs on Teachers.Net

Featured Job special only $39!

https://teachers.net/jobs

Become a Teachers.Net sponsor!

Professional Readings Chatboard

Book discussion: let's start Friday, June 17

by judy5ca

Jun 10, 2011

Not really a random date, just enough time for all of us to be done with school and other commitments. Sound good? Judy

Comment

(13)

report post

view previous comments

PMo Sounds great!

Jun 12, 2011

report post

Kathy Yeah! I looked for the book around town as soon as we decided, but no one had it so I had to order it. I was told it would probably be here by the 17th. I can read and then come back to your posts during the week so I can still participate. I look forward to starting. On 6/11/11, judy5ca wrote: > Excellent suggestions, Parker and Teri! We defini...See MoreYeah! I looked for the book around town as soon as we decided, but no one had it so I had to order it. I was told it would probably be here by the 17th. I can read and then come back to your posts during the week so I can still participate. I look forward to starting. On 6/11/11, judy5ca wrote: > Excellent suggestions, Parker and Teri! We definitely want to finish this > summer, LOL. Okay, one unit per week it is. And I really like the > possibility of being able to compare thinking on the same topic. Let's > plan to read Unit 1, Ch. 1-2, by next Friday, June 17. Sound good, everyone? > Judy > > > On 6/11/11, Teri wrote: >> If we do it by unit, as Parker suggested, it stays a "summer read." We >> could read one unit per week. >> >> On 6/11/11, Parker wrote: >>> Oh my, there is no way I can read and digest the whole book anytime >>> soon. So chapter by chapter, or maybe 2 chapters per week since >>> there are 14 chapters, would be also be my preference. >>> Or...maybe this. The table of contents is divided into 5 units, >>> maybe we could discuss 1 unit at a time. For example: the >>> first "unit" includes ch. 1-2 and is titled Monitoring our >>> Comprehension. The next "unit" contains chapters 3-6 and is titled >>> Teaching Thinking. etc. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/10/11, judy5ca wrote: >>>> On 6/10/11, OK -Parker wrote: >>>>> Last student day was today. I have a few workdays next week >>>>> and then done. How far shall we read? >>>> >>>> I would prefer to read and discuss one chapter/author at a time. >>>> Last time we had a book discussion one person kept jumping to the >>>> end of the book. So it needs to be decided which way to read it: >>>> whole book, 1 discussion >>>> or >>>> 1 chapter + discussion on each chapter (I can see this possibility >>>> being 1 chapter per week to allow everyone time to respond) >>>> >>>> I've stated my opinion, but it's fine with me if the majority >>>> wants to have a whole book discussion. Please decide what you >>>> want and speak up, everyone! >>>> >>>> Judy >>>>

Jun 14, 2011

report post

Finally! It's over.

by judy5ca

Jun 12, 2011

As I've posted here, I had a VERY difficult class this year. I've always been a bit sad as the year ends, but last week I was counting the minutes. I've learned so much and had beliefs reinforced: *kids need attention (as parents work longer hours, kids need us--I had some coming 45 min. before school...just to talk or for a hug or sit quietly whil...See More

Comment

report post

Comprehension Going Forward: Intro

by judy5ca

Jun 17, 2011

I've never been a Harvey Daniels fan because I didn't like the rigidity of roles in his literature circles. But I have to say he really impressed me in the introduction. I love his willingness to change. And I particularly like his conclusion, "There is no topic more important to human development--or to education---than learning how we humans come...See More

Comment

(2)

report post

KD Judy, Thank you. It is not that I don't like Daniels, but I don't like the roles in literature circles either. I don't think I could consider myself having been a lit circle person, I am a comprehension strategies person. I can't wait to get my book now. I got an email that it has been shipped- yeah! On 6/17/11, judy5ca wrote: > I've never been ...See More

Jun 17, 2011

report post

Teri I have always been a Harvey Daniels fan--but perhaps hearing him speak in person made a difference--and I loved the introduction too. (I highlighted the same quotation that Judy posted!) I especially likes the Regie Routman quotation, "we are all born into this world comprehending." What a concept! So what are we doing to kids to make them stop com...See More

Jun 17, 2011

report post

Comprehension Going Forward: Ch. 1

by judy5ca

Jun 17, 2011

Those of you who have known me for years know that I worship Ellin Keene. Sadly, I was a bit disappointed by this chapter. It seemed like little more than a rehashing of her book, To Understand.

I agree that we need to take comprehension strategies deeper, but most of us figured that out as soon as we started teaching them. Keene seems to...See More

Comment

(15)

report post

view previous comments

PMo .... was a variation on Think/Pair/Share (that comes from Whole Brain Teaching, I think) called "Turn and Teach". He used it mostly to reinforce key concepts or to maintain active listening. I discovered, somewhat by accident, that even though there's a small lexical shift, there's something quite prescriptive about "teaching" vs. "sharing". When s...See More.... was a variation on Think/Pair/Share (that comes from Whole Brain Teaching, I think) called "Turn and Teach". He used it mostly to reinforce key concepts or to maintain active listening. I discovered, somewhat by accident, that even though there's a small lexical shift, there's something quite prescriptive about "teaching" vs. "sharing". When someone in whole group was discussing a deeper level of application (in reading, writing, math, etc...), I would turn to the group and say something like: Well Susie Q was just discussing the way she keeps all the characters straight when just beginning a novel by mapping them out and then connecting them to people she knows. Think of a time when you have had a lot of characters to keep track of - what kind of strategies did you use, or what ideas do you have about this? Turn and teach....

Even if only about 1/2 the class was able to come up with thoughtful reflections, having one or two then share out would enable me to bring in the others who often could spark off those ideas. Or ask questions, etc...

>> What do others do? >> Judy >> >> >> On 6/20/11, dc wrote: >>> dc here, jumping in late! >>> Hopefully you are all still reading these posts! >>> I think my first reaction was the same as yours, Judy! Long ago, >>> we all immediately realized we couldn't just ask kids to identify >>> text to self connections. We realized that we had to go further >>> and ask them, "And how did that connection help you understand the >>> text better?" It was then and only then, that we got to deeper >>> understanding through those back and forth conversations. >>> >>> Here's my problem that I'm hoping that all of you brilliant >>> teachers can help me with. It's basically a "classroom >>> management" simultaneous engagement problem. Whenever I'm engaged >>> in a brilliant conversation with a child about their level of >>> comprehension and we are going back and forth with questions and >>> discussion, I feel the rest of the class "going to Tahiti". How >>> do you keep the rest of the kids engaged with this one on one >>> discussion in a small group? Obviously, in individual >>> conferences, this is not an issue, but in larger group >>> discussions, I find that I have to make sure not to call on kids >>> with hands up, but to randomly call on kids. Then I get blank >>> stares sometimes. I have tried eliciting discussion from the >>> lesser involved kids using the techniques mentioned (what did your >>> partner say, what would you say if you DID know the answer), but >>> it takes TIME and I feel the tension and frustration from the >>> faster thinkers and processors in the room. To adequately elicit >>> this deeper thinking from the quieter, less-engaged students, you >>> need to give them lots of time. Can you all talk about ways that >>> you have dealt with this? Unfortunately, with all of the time we >>> now devote to RTI, Student Success Sessions, Rotations for >>> Success, and Intervention/Enrichment Blocks, we have very little >>> time for long blocks of whole class modeling/guiding/discussion >>> anymore.

Jun 21, 2011

report post

dc YES, EXACTLY! It is only since I've been doing whole-brain teaching methods (not all of them, but some of them) that I've realized how little the whole class is engaged cognitively when I'm discussing back and forth with ONE child. When I ask kids to turn and teach and then I circulate to LISTEN, that is when I realize how much the quiet and slower...See MoreYES, EXACTLY! It is only since I've been doing whole-brain teaching methods (not all of them, but some of them) that I've realized how little the whole class is engaged cognitively when I'm discussing back and forth with ONE child. When I ask kids to turn and teach and then I circulate to LISTEN, that is when I realize how much the quiet and slower processors in the class just rely on the quicker speakers and thinkers. I am trying to use more of these methods. It makes me realize that when I base my judgments about how the class is doing solely on the level of thinking of my quicker students, I am way off the mark. So many of the examples that I see in the books are based on these one-on-one discussions between teacher and student. They sound so brilliant, but in the back of my mind I'm thinking, "Yeah, but if I had a video focused on the other 25 kids in the classroom, I can just imagine what they would be doing (fiddling, looking up at the ceiling, playing with their pencils, talking to a neighbor). I'm trying to make sure that ALL of the kids are engaged cognitively ALL of the time, not just a few. Judy, I really thank you for mentioning the strategy: "Joey, did you hear the brilliant thinking that Jonah just shared? Say it again and share it with Joey. I want Joey to hear it too." That's a great strategy. Not only does Joey (and his whole side of the room who just went to Tahiti) get more cognitively engaged, but Jonah gets recognition and gets to restate (and maybe even further develop) his thinking. We could even take it a step further to have Jessica (sitting next to Jonah) do the sharing with Joey and then have Jonah listen to see if Jessica stated his thinking correctly or to have him clarify it, thus getting another kid involved as well.

Our district is BIG on cognitive engagement for all learners all of the time. They never like to see one child/one teacher interactions. Consequently, I'm always reading these P.D. books with this in mind and trying to figure out ways to modify them to fit my "reality" in my district. Thanks Judy, Teri, and PMo for weighing in with your suggestions and support. I love when we get "down and dirty" with a book and float on our own sea of talk!!

Jun 21, 2011

report post

Comprehension Going Forward: Ch. 2

by judy5ca

Jun 17, 2011

Well, blow me down! I'd never liked Zimmermann as much as Keene, but I love the insight and thoughtfulness she displays here along with some solid recommendations. I agree with her fully that it's all about encouraging "daring thinking." I love that and am stealing it: daring thinking.

I am thrilled to hear her take on 21st century learni...See More

Comment

(3)

report post

view previous comments

nina This chapter is almost like a pep talk for teachers. It describes the kind of teacher most of want to be, for me, there is a great deal of conflict between Zimmerman's teacher and the reality of the 43 min. seven periods schoolday. The section, "Teacher Really Matter," brought on the same feelings that I had reading Keene, that there is no time for...See MoreThis chapter is almost like a pep talk for teachers. It describes the kind of teacher most of want to be, for me, there is a great deal of conflict between Zimmerman's teacher and the reality of the 43 min. seven periods schoolday. The section, "Teacher Really Matter," brought on the same feelings that I had reading Keene, that there is no time for all this digging deeper, that the students don't care anyway, and that society seems to prefer doers to thinkers. I also felt some conflict with Zimmerman's First, Do No Harm chapter vs. all the strategy teaching. Is the strategy instruction doing the harm, keeping the students from simply enjoying the reading experience? Also, we do have a curriculum to follow. I don't really get to choose what we read. We also have mandatory midterms and finals that the reading we do "is tied to." I want to teach the strategies, my students need the strategies. I want to slow down. I'm wondering, how is this reading connected to the idea of "rigor."

On 6/17/11, Teri wrote: > On 6/17/11, judy5ca wrote: >> Well, blow me down! I'd never liked Zimmermann as much as >> Keene, but I love the insight and thoughtfulness she >> displays here along with some solid recommendations. I >> agree with her fully that it's all about encouraging "daring >> thinking." I love that and am stealing it: daring >> thinking. >> >> I am thrilled to hear her take on 21st century learning and >> warn us not to become "trivial." >> >> I like her recommendation to "slow down" and her citing of >> Outliers and Gladwell's 10,000 hours of practice >> (thanks, Kim-wherever-you-are for recommending >> Outliers to me). I am so guilty of rushing and >> trying to fit more in. Slow down, Judy. >> > I thought this was a really good point too. I think we're all > guilty of trying to do too much too fast. > > >> I especially like her reminder, "The thinking strategies are >> not an end in themselves. They are a means to an end. The >> end is avid reading and good thinking." (39) > > This is the point I need to make sure gets through to my > students. Many do the strategies superficially and then > wonder why their reading skills aren't really improving. "I'm > doing all the work." They think they can go through the > motions in class and then somehow, magically, on the day of > the state test, their scores will magically improve. > Frustrating to say the least. >> >> Zimmermann said many of the same things Keene did, but >> somehow I felt more relevance in her thinking. Keene made >> me nod; Zimmermann inspired me. > > My favorite part of chapter two, however, was the First, Do No > Harm. "Do nothing that makes a child feel ignorant or > inferior; nothing that bores children so they turn off to > learning; nothing that underestimates their gifts and > potential; nothing that values a test score over a child's > imagination." In today's educational, high-stakes testing > world, I think this is such an important issue for us, as > teachers, to remember. (Not to mention that I'd like to force- > feed it down my state legislature's throats!)

Jun 20, 2011

report post

PMo I have always enjoyed the way Zimmermann writes, and this chapter confirmed it for me - so much passion, compassion and caring for what students can do and how they can be inspired to do it. I agree with Nina that it would make a terrific pep talk - not much new here for me, but did love Ellin's sidebar that..."Increasingly, good teaching becomes a...See More

Jun 25, 2011

report post

Never Work Harder Than Your Students

by Teri

Jun 18, 2011

Summer is definitely my time for professional reading/study. In addition to Comprehension Going Forward, which I'm re-reading for our discussions, I'm working on a couple/few other books this summer.

One is Robyn Jackson's Never Work Harder Than Your Students- -which appeared on my Amazon recommendations and really sounded good. I started...See More

Comment

(1)

report post

judy5ca Thanks for the recommendation, Teri. I just read part of the first chapter at Amazon. I loved the idea of kids' currency and was really getting involved when I ran out of free. So I ordered it. Judy

On 6/18/11, Teri wrote: > Summer is definitely my time for professional > reading/study. In addition to Comprehension Going Forward, >...See More

Jun 18, 2011

report post

In My Mind/My Actions

by judy5ca

Jun 18, 2011

I've been thinking about this t-chart and how to help the kids build one. I even reread the description, but I'm puzzled by the reality. Do we want kids to "connect" them? Do you think we tell them that each column is a separate (but simultaneous) response to reading? Judy

Comment

report post

Comprehension Going Forward for next week...help!

by judy5ca

Jun 18, 2011

I see that the next section is 4 chapters, so we have a choice. You decide. 1. Read all 4 chapters. 2. Read 2 chapters a week for 2 weeks.

I vote for #2.

Comment

(2)

report post

Teri I agree--two chapters at a time.

On 6/18/11, judy5ca wrote: > I see that the next section is 4 chapters, so we have a > choice. You decide. > 1. Read all 4 chapters. > 2. Read 2 chapters a week for 2 weeks. > > I vote for #2.

Jun 18, 2011

report post

nina Two, please On 6/18/11, judy5ca wrote: > I see that the next section is 4 chapters, so we have a > choice. You decide. > 1. Read all 4 chapters. > 2. Read 2 chapters a week for 2 weeks. > > I vote for #2.

Jun 20, 2011

report post

Hey, out there! Where are you all?

by judy5ca

Jun 19, 2011

Friends, let me gently remind you we are discussing a book written by some of the best minds in reading comprehension. We started talking about the first 2 chapters--and we feel so lonely. Won't you join us? Won't you post your thinking? Judy P.S. In case I wasn't specific enough, I don't recall all who were interested, but I'm also talking to KIM,...See More

Comment

(2)

report post

KD I would love to discuss, but at this point my copy of the book has still not found my house-drat! I am following the discussion and getting more and more curious about this book. I can't wait for it to get here especially since it was promised on the 16th-patience is a virtue I don't have much of at the present moment. On 6/19/11, judy5ca wrote: &g...See More

Jun 19, 2011

report post

dc Hey, it's DC! I think that I might have mentioned that I would be blissfully far away from computers/phones/and other electronic devices (when you have three teenagers you understand how blissful it is for ME to have my three teenagers away from those devices!) until the 20th. Well, I am back now. I am anxious to catch up on my reading of posts her...See More

Jun 20, 2011

report post

Ch 3-4 help please

by judy5ca

Jun 23, 2011

Can someone get the discussion going tomorrow please? I fell walking and really hurt my wrist (and dignity). Typing one-handed is slow and annoying. Thanks! Judy

Comment

report post