Willingham Chapter 8

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Professional Readings Chatboard

Willingham Chapter 8

by judy5ca

Feb 5, 2011

Well, howdy-doo, this chapter is all about nature/nurture. Not surprising he takes the middle ground: intelligence is a mix of genes and environment and all kids can improve their intelligence through hard work. Who am I to disagree? (do you hear the background vocal?)

And the part about process praise (vs. person praise) cites Dweck. She's one of the authors of the article on the same subject that I linked below. So if you want to read more about this, scroll down. As I said on that post, I agree with this premise wholeheartedly (but I don't always do it).

I sure hope my students believe I have confidence in them, Judy

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dc I have two high school sons. One is an efficient studier. He can study for one hour and master the material. My other son will study the same material for four hours and not have mastery. I would say the second son "worked harder" but if he had continued to study like this for even more hours, he would not have improved his grade. I have to study w...See More

Feb 7, 2011

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Jan You are right that many kids are putting forth as much effort as is humanly possible so to tell them that they need even more is not going to be very motivating. But, we can tell them that it is possible to work smarter not harder...we can make our effort more productive. That's where the emphasis on effort should be put.

We consider effo...See MoreYou are right that many kids are putting forth as much effort as is humanly possible so to tell them that they need even more is not going to be very motivating. But, we can tell them that it is possible to work smarter not harder...we can make our effort more productive. That's where the emphasis on effort should be put.

We consider effort and ability to be those attributions that lead to an internal locus of control, but we see ability as fixed and not under the person's control, whereas effort is totally controllable. Kids get discouraged by this because they see themselves as 'dumb' and think there is nothing they can do...."I was just born this way."

However,we have learned that the acquisition of certain strategies makes our ability work a whole lot better for us and this makes our effort more productive. As dc says, her son has all the ability in the world to understand what he's reading, but he doesn't have the strategies to access it. Now that he is learning them, is ability is more accessible to him so his effort is far more productive than it was.

Many cognitive scientists are suggesting that strategies be made the 5th attribution to locus of control,but officially, only 4 are listed. Learning strategies is just seen as a boost to ability and effort, not a new loci. One very important thing we can do to help kids see that the learning of strategies will give him that needed boost, is to label for him how much the new strategy is helping....."Wow, James, since you learned that strategy of finding the key idea, the time it takes you to read and comprehend is so much shorter" If they see the value in strategies, they will seek them out on their own as they get older. They'll know it's possible to find a better way and they will take time to figure it out...or ask someone to help them. And, this increases their feelings of competence.

On 2/07/11, dc wrote: > I have two high school sons. One is an efficient studier. He can > study for one hour and master the material. My other son will > study the same material for four hours and not have mastery. I > would say the second son "worked harder" but if he had continued to > study like this for even more hours, he would not have improved his > grade. I have to study with him, help teach him how to find key > material, make notecards, etc. It is frustrating to watch the > number of hours he puts in to studying that do not get him as far > as his two siblings who study the same material for far less time.

Feb 7, 2011

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Jo to Jan - agree 100% I agree 100%. Too bad often it comes out of the mouths as you didn't work hard enough.

On 2/07/11, Jan wrote: > > You are right that many kids are putting forth as much effort as is > humanly possible so to tell them that they need even more is not going > to be very motivating. But, we can tell them that it is possible to >...See MoreI agree 100%. Too bad often it comes out of the mouths as you didn't work hard enough.

On 2/07/11, Jan wrote: > > You are right that many kids are putting forth as much effort as is > humanly possible so to tell them that they need even more is not going > to be very motivating. But, we can tell them that it is possible to > work smarter not harder...we can make our effort more productive. > That's where the emphasis on effort should be put. > > We consider effort and ability to be those attributions that lead to an > internal locus of control, but we see ability as fixed and not under > the person's control, whereas effort is totally controllable. Kids get > discouraged by this because they see themselves as 'dumb' and think > there is nothing they can do...."I was just born this way." > > However,we have learned that the acquisition of certain strategies > makes our ability work a whole lot better for us and this makes our > effort more productive. As dc says, her son has all the ability in > the world to understand what he's reading, but he doesn't have the > strategies to access it. Now that he is learning them, is ability is > more accessible to him so his effort is far more productive than it > was. > > > Many cognitive scientists are suggesting that strategies be made the > 5th attribution to locus of control,but officially, only 4 are listed. > Learning strategies is just seen as a boost to ability and effort, not > a new loci. One very important thing we can do to help kids see that > the learning of strategies will give him that needed boost, is to label > for him how much the new strategy is helping....."Wow, James, since you > learned that strategy of finding the key idea, the time it takes you to > read and comprehend is so much shorter" If they see the value in > strategies, they will seek them out on their own as they get older. > They'll know it's possible to find a better way and they will take > time to figure it out...or ask someone to help them. And, this > increases their feelings of competence. > > > On 2/07/11, dc wrote: >> I have two high school sons. One is an efficient studier. He can >> study for one hour and master the material. My other son will >> study the same material for four hours and not have mastery. I >> would say the second son "worked harder" but if he had continued to >> study like this for even more hours, he would not have improved his >> grade. I have to study with him, help teach him how to find key >> material, make notecards, etc. It is frustrating to watch the >> number of hours he puts in to studying that do not get him as far >> as his two siblings who study the same material for far less time.

Feb 8, 2011

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Jan The problem with feedback is that we can't plan it ahead...and, to be most effective,it needs to be immediate. That leads to statements that we haven't thought out..and don't realize until we've said them that they didn't quite sound like we intended. And, once said, retracting them just isn't possible. I don't know the answer to this one other tha...See MoreThe problem with feedback is that we can't plan it ahead...and, to be most effective,it needs to be immediate. That leads to statements that we haven't thought out..and don't realize until we've said them that they didn't quite sound like we intended. And, once said, retracting them just isn't possible. I don't know the answer to this one other than the more we practice, the more automatic our responses become. I try to memorize a couple of them and then just substitute a name!

Feedback from someone important in a child's life has tremendous power. We don't realize how much stock they put into what we say...and how it sticks with them. I have about 200 former students as FB friends. They are 25-45 years old and they will tell me something I said to them when they were in the third grade! It's scary sometimes to think of the influence we can have. One girl in my first class says she learned to love reading because I gave her a copy of Charlotte's Web as first prize for knowing multiplication facts. She had never had her own paperback before and this was the beginning for her. She still has the book...and I signed it! I remember absolutely nothing about that. What scares me is that I'm sure other kids remember something I said or did off the top of my head that had a negative influence.Who knows? At the time, I didn't know the power of feedback so probably just said whatever. I think if I were in the classroom now, I'd be afraid to open my mouth!

On 2/08/11, Jo to Jan - agree 100% wrote: > I agree 100%. Too bad often it comes out of the mouths as you didn't > work hard enough. > > On 2/07/11, Jan wrote: >> >> You are right that many kids are putting forth as much effort as is >> humanly possible so to tell them that they need even more is not going >> to be very motivating. But, we can tell them that it is possible to >> work smarter not harder...we can make our effort more productive. >> That's where the emphasis on effort should be put. >> >> We consider effort and ability to be those attributions that lead to an >> internal locus of control, but we see ability as fixed and not under >> the person's control, whereas effort is totally controllable. Kids get >> discouraged by this because they see themselves as 'dumb' and think >> there is nothing they can do...."I was just born this way." >> >> However,we have learned that the acquisition of certain strategies >> makes our ability work a whole lot better for us and this makes our >> effort more productive. As dc says, her son has all the ability in >> the world to understand what he's reading, but he doesn't have the >> strategies to access it. Now that he is learning them, is ability is >> more accessible to him so his effort is far more productive than it >> was. >> >> >> Many cognitive scientists are suggesting that strategies be made the >> 5th attribution to locus of control,but officially, only 4 are listed. >> Learning strategies is just seen as a boost to ability and effort, not >> a new loci. One very important thing we can do to help kids see that >> the learning of strategies will give him that needed boost, is to label >> for him how much the new strategy is helping....."Wow, James, since you >> learned that strategy of finding the key idea, the time it takes you to >> read and comprehend is so much shorter" If they see the value in >> strategies, they will seek them out on their own as they get older. >> They'll know it's possible to find a better way and they will take >> time to figure it out...or ask someone to help them. And, this >> increases their feelings of competence. >> >> >> On 2/07/11, dc wrote: >>> I have two high school sons. One is an efficient studier. He can >>> study for one hour and master the material. My other son will >>> study the same material for four hours and not have mastery. I >>> would say the second son "worked harder" but if he had continued to >>> study like this for even more hours, he would not have improved his >>> grade. I have to study with him, help teach him how to find key >>> material, make notecards, etc. It is frustrating to watch the >>> number of hours he puts in to studying that do not get him as far >>> as his two siblings who study the same material for far less time.

Feb 8, 2011

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Jo But learning proper feedback and getting in the mindset of changing how one communicates can be learned and can also be learned by utilizing modeling with adults. Just as a child with pragmatic language problems can be taught through practice to improve that communication, adults studying to be teachers can be taught to think and communicate in a p...See MoreBut learning proper feedback and getting in the mindset of changing how one communicates can be learned and can also be learned by utilizing modeling with adults. Just as a child with pragmatic language problems can be taught through practice to improve that communication, adults studying to be teachers can be taught to think and communicate in a positive manner. We communicate the way we do because we have learned it from somewhere. It could have been a classmate when we were younger using intimidation to get what they want, or a parent, or a teacher. But at some point we saw what seems to have worked (short-term).

No, there is no canned list of phrases that will work all of the time. It is learning how to communicate differently. Massive effort since there are so many teaching schools and teachers.

On 2/08/11, Jan wrote: > The problem with feedback is that we can't plan it > ahead...and, to be most > effective,it needs to be immediate. That leads to > statements that we haven't thought out..and don't > realize until we've said them that they didn't quite > sound like we intended. And, once said, retracting them > just isn't possible. I don't know the answer to this > one other than the more we practice, the more automatic > our responses become. I try to memorize a couple of > them and then just substitute a name! > > Feedback from someone important in a child's life has > tremendous power. We don't realize how much stock they > put into what we say...and how it sticks with them. I > have about 200 former students as FB friends. They are > 25-45 years old and they will tell me something I said > to them when they were in the third grade! It's scary > sometimes to think of the influence we can have. One > girl in my first class says she learned to love reading > because I gave her a copy of Charlotte's Web as first > prize for knowing multiplication facts. She had never > had her own paperback before and this was the beginning > for her. She still has the book...and I signed it! I > remember absolutely nothing about that. What scares me > is that I'm sure other kids remember something I said > or did off the top of my head that had a negative > influence.Who knows? At the time, I didn't know the > power of feedback so probably just said whatever. I > think if I were in the classroom now, I'd be afraid to > open my mouth! > > > On 2/08/11, Jo to Jan - agree 100% wrote: >> I agree 100%. Too bad often it comes out of the >> mouths as you didn't work hard enough. >> >> On 2/07/11, Jan wrote: >>> >>> You are right that many kids are putting forth as >>> much effort as is humanly possible so to tell them >>> that they need even more is not going to be very >>> motivating. But, we can tell them that it is >>> possible to work smarter not harder...we can make >>> our effort more productive. That's where the >>> emphasis on effort should be put. >>> >>> We consider effort and ability to be those >>> attributions that lead to an internal locus of >>> control, but we see ability as fixed and not under >>> the person's control, whereas effort is totally >>> controllable. Kids get discouraged by this because >>> they see themselves as 'dumb' and think there is >>> nothing they can do...."I was just born this >>> way." >>> >>> However,we have learned that the acquisition of >>> certain strategies makes our ability work a whole >>> lot better for us and this makes our effort more >>> productive. As dc says, her son has all the ability >>> in the world to understand what he's reading, but >>> he doesn't have the strategies to access it. Now >>> that he is learning them, is ability is more >>> accessible to him so his effort is far more >>> productive than it was. >>> >>> >>> Many cognitive scientists are suggesting that >>> strategies be made the 5th attribution to locus of >>> control,but officially, only 4 are listed. Learning >>> strategies is just seen as a boost to ability and >>> effort, not a new loci. One very important thing we >>> can do to help kids see that the learning of >>> strategies will give him that needed boost, is to >>> label for him how much the new strategy is >>> helping....."Wow, James, since you learned >>> that strategy of finding the key idea, the time it >>> takes you to read and comprehend is so much >>> shorter" If they see the value in strategies, >>> they will seek them out on their own as they get >>> older. They'll know it's possible to find a better >>> way and they will take time to figure it out...or >>> ask someone to help them. And, this increases their >>> feelings of competence. >>> >>> >>> On 2/07/11, dc wrote: >>>> I have two high school sons. One is an efficient >>>> studier. He can study for one hour and master the >>>> material. My other son will study the same >>>> material for four hours and not have mastery. I >>>> would say the second son "worked >>>> harder" but if he had continued to study >>>> like this for even more hours, he would not have >>>> improved his grade. I have to study with him, >>>> help teach him how to find key material, make >>>> notecards, etc. It is frustrating to watch the >>>> number of hours he puts in to studying that do >>>> not get him as far as his two siblings who study >>>> the same material for far less time.

Feb 8, 2011

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