Let's schmoke!

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Professional Readings Chatboard

Let's schmoke!

by dc

Mar 6, 2011

Just finished reading it. Couldn't put it down. Loved the message. Wish we could start implementing all of it right away in every classroom. He did get a little redundant towards the end, however, and the only part I didn't agree with was the part about not doing hands-on science. Being the daughter of a scientist, I do think kids need to be engaged in science investigations. They need to make hypotheses, test data, draw conclusions, and confirm or disprove hypotheses. Other than that one point, I loved the book!

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dc Jan, I'm not sure if I know what you mean by "tested standards"? Does that mean that those teachers only teach math and language arts until May and then teach all of their social studies, pe, science, art, and music standards in the last month of school? Also that wouldn't work here, as we finish testing on May 10th and school gets out on May 27th....See More

Mar 7, 2011

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Jan In social studies, science, etc. they teach the standards as they go. In math and reading they focus on the standards that are tested and those that have the most test items. I should not have said teach only tested standards but rather emphasize the tested standards. They pretty must do what Schmoker suggests in terms of selecting those standards ...See MoreIn social studies, science, etc. they teach the standards as they go. In math and reading they focus on the standards that are tested and those that have the most test items. I should not have said teach only tested standards but rather emphasize the tested standards. They pretty must do what Schmoker suggests in terms of selecting those standards that are tested the heaviest. They don't get out until June 24 or something like that so that's when they pick up those standards that are not tested but are important for the next grade level. Also, the kids then get those standards needed for next year at the end of this year so they are, hopefully, ready to go in September, knowing that the last thing taught is the longest remembered. They hope! But it does seem to work for them.

I also don't think they skip standards as much as they adjust what they teach within the standard...not spending a lot of time,for example, on division with two digit divisor when its not tested, but a lot of time on one-digit divisors when it is. I think there's a lot of rationalization for doing it this way. First of all, the state chooses to test the standards they think are most important so there is an obligation to spend more time on those. Also, many 'standards experts' like Doug Reeves and others have suggested from the beginning that we do this....select those standards that are most important (judged by how much they are tested AND how important they are for success in future grades)....and hit hard on those. Since they cannot learn well great numbers of standards, it's better that they learn at a deep level those that are really important. The high schools have also sent down the content (especially math) that is most important for future success and the teachers definitely hone in on that. Fractions are one, which does not get as heavy an emphasis in the test and was getting short shrift at the elementary. Fractions is necessary for algebra so they are focusing on that.

I really feel that our first obligation is to the KIDS....the skills and concepts that THEY need to be successful in school and in life...and make those the focus of our instruction. To try to do them all is, I believe, is an injustice for all of the kids because we know they cannot learn all of them to the depth and complexity that is needed.

The other things is because CA standards are so high in levels of complexity (Bloom) that more time must be spent because of the added processing that is required. Most state standards are written to the comp level so teachers can teach more standards because it takes less time to get them to the expected level of complexity (I think this is the way it should be, by the way), but CA in its wisdom chose to have everyone analyze everything so we have to pick and choose a bit more. And, much of that, I think, boils down to which standards are worthy enough to warrant the kind of time spent necessary to get to the analysis level.

I'm also thinking that teaching like Schmoker suggests in both reading and math would give us much more time to teach to all of the standards, even to the analysis level, than we have now. I think when we all get to the reading and math chapters you will be better able to see the possibility of the teacher being able to exercise sufficient control over curriculum to teach well without the time and stress we are now feeling. Keep your minds open to that....it's not about teaching more (or even the same) it's about teaching SMARTER. One example would be the comprehension strategies...those take a great deal of time to teach....if we change how we teach reading, we will teach the kids to read to the expected proficiency in half the time.

I think what we have to do with Schmoker's book is to not think about accomplishing what he says by teaching like we are today. As Larry Lezotte always says, "We cannot teach new things in old ways." It is all about changing how we think and what we do.

On 3/07/11, dc wrote: > Jan, I'm not sure if I know what you mean by "tested > standards"? Does that mean that those teachers only teach math > and language arts until May and then teach all of their social > studies, pe, science, art, and music standards in the last > month of school? Also that wouldn't work here, as we finish > testing on May 10th and school gets out on May 27th. That > would only leave 17 actual days (far fewer school days) to > teach a "whole lotta" standards. Can you clarify what you mean > by tested standards? As far as I have seen from the CDE site, > EVERY math and language arts standard is tested either every > year, every other year, or every third year. I never know > which "year cycle" they are on, so I have to assume my kids are > being tested on every math and language arts standard.

Mar 7, 2011

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Jan On 3/06/11, judy5ca wrote: > The standards chapter had me agreeing with Brad that the > book is nice validation for what we believe but that it's > very hard to accept as a guidebook under current > circumstances.

ALERT: Do not read Schmoker with the idea of the OLD circumstances. Think NEW and DIFFERENT. And, yes, we can chang...See More

Mar 7, 2011

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brad On 3/07/11, Jan wrote: > > ALERT: Do not read Schmoker with the idea of the OLD > circumstances. Think NEW and DIFFERENT. And, yes, we can > change the circumstances of our teaching so that we can meet all > the standards. BUT, we cannot do that the way we are teaching > now. Keep your minds very open until you get to the chapters...See More

Mar 13, 2011

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dc Actually in my mind, Jan, it is about teaching in an OLD way.... the way we used to be able to teach before standardized tests, bubbles, worksheets, and RTI. We used to be able to teach REAL reading and REAL writing. It's almost as if he's giving us permission to teach in the authentic way we used to teach. I just wish he had the authority to give ...See More

Mar 13, 2011

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