Comprehension Going Forward: Ch. 1

by judy5ca

Jun 17, 2011

Those of you who have known me for years know that I worship Ellin Keene. Sadly, I was a bit disappointed by this chapter. It seemed like little more than a rehashing of her book, To Understand.

I agree that we need to take comprehension strategies deeper, but most of us figured that out as soon as we started teaching them. Keene seems to think we taught the strategies on a surface level when, in fact, the whole purpose was to get kids to think more deeply.

That said, I did like a few of the practical suggestions and hope to work them into my teaching: *Jen's In My Mind/My Actions charting is very smart--I like that as another method (besides my questioning) to get kids to go deeper (p. 18 and on) *I liked Keene's interest in EMPATHY and would like to make her box #1 (p. 20) into a week's worth of lessons *I'll admit, I wrote a note to myself to come back to the nonfiction outcomes and dimensions when I get closer to teaching that, so I guess Keene IS giving me a lot...See More

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dc dc here, jumping in late! Hopefully you are all still reading these posts! I think my first reaction was the same as yours, Judy! Long ago, we all immediately realized we couldn't just ask kids to identify text to self connections. We realized that we had to go further and ask them, "And how did that connection help you understand the text better?"...See More

Jun 20, 2011

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judy5ca First, sorry, I forgot you were gone--but glad you had a good time, dc.

About your problem, which is our problem: *my favorite thing to do, but you can't do it to often, is something I learned from Ellin Keene herself. Look enraptured as the child speaks. Look thoughtful. Then look at ALL the rest of the class. "Did you hear what JoeBob ju...See MoreFirst, sorry, I forgot you were gone--but glad you had a good time, dc.

About your problem, which is our problem: *my favorite thing to do, but you can't do it to often, is something I learned from Ellin Keene herself. Look enraptured as the child speaks. Look thoughtful. Then look at ALL the rest of the class. "Did you hear what JoeBob just said? He just said the most brilliant thing! Did you hear him say...?" By then others will be itching to jump in and be brilliant, too. *I try to save those very individual conversations for Conference time, "Wow, JoeBob, that's really smart thinking. Let's talk about that more in terms of your own book during conferences." *I try to have part of every reading lesson be something all can do. When I taught 3rd, they all wrote a stickie every day. Now, in 5th, we keep a sort of response journal during reading lessons. I try to figure out a way to let most share quickly. I taper off the number of sharers over the course of the year, but they know that everyone is expected to have a least one response. *Turn and talk is good if they're trustworthy.

What do others do? Judy

On 6/20/11, dc wrote: > dc here, jumping in late! > Hopefully you are all still reading these posts! > I think my first reaction was the same as yours, Judy! Long ago, > we all immediately realized we couldn't just ask kids to identify > text to self connections. We realized that we had to go further > and ask them, "And how did that connection help you understand the > text better?" It was then and only then, that we got to deeper > understanding through those back and forth conversations. > > Here's my problem that I'm hoping that all of you brilliant > teachers can help me with. It's basically a "classroom > management" simultaneous engagement problem. Whenever I'm engaged > in a brilliant conversation with a child about their level of > comprehension and we are going back and forth with questions and > discussion, I feel the rest of the class "going to Tahiti". How > do you keep the rest of the kids engaged with this one on one > discussion in a small group? Obviously, in individual > conferences, this is not an issue, but in larger group > discussions, I find that I have to make sure not to call on kids > with hands up, but to randomly call on kids. Then I get blank > stares sometimes. I have tried eliciting discussion from the > lesser involved kids using the techniques mentioned (what did your > partner say, what would you say if you DID know the answer), but > it takes TIME and I feel the tension and frustration from the > faster thinkers and processors in the room. To adequately elicit > this deeper thinking from the quieter, less-engaged students, you > need to give them lots of time. Can you all talk about ways that > you have dealt with this? Unfortunately, with all of the time we > now devote to RTI, Student Success Sessions, Rotations for > Success, and Intervention/Enrichment Blocks, we have very little > time for long blocks of whole class modeling/guiding/discussion > anymore.

Jun 20, 2011

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Teri This is definitely OUR problem. My thoughts on this, so far this summer, is to have the students do more and more in small groups that then must report back to the whole-class. At the high school level, whole-class discussion (with low level students) just does not seem to work. I'm obviously still contemplating this problem myself. Would love to h...See MoreThis is definitely OUR problem. My thoughts on this, so far this summer, is to have the students do more and more in small groups that then must report back to the whole-class. At the high school level, whole-class discussion (with low level students) just does not seem to work. I'm obviously still contemplating this problem myself. Would love to hear others' ideas.

On 6/20/11, judy5ca wrote: > First, sorry, I forgot you were gone--but glad you had a good time, dc. > > About your problem, which is our problem: > *my favorite thing to do, but you can't do it to often, is something > I learned from Ellin Keene herself. Look enraptured as the child > speaks. Look thoughtful. Then look at ALL the rest of the class. > "Did you hear what JoeBob just said? He just said the most brilliant > thing! Did you hear him say...?" By then others will be itching to > jump in and be brilliant, too. > *I try to save those very individual conversations for Conference > time, "Wow, JoeBob, that's really smart thinking. Let's talk about > that more in terms of your own book during conferences." > *I try to have part of every reading lesson be something all can do. > When I taught 3rd, they all wrote a stickie every day. Now, in 5th, > we keep a sort of response journal during reading lessons. I try to > figure out a way to let most share quickly. I taper off the number > of sharers over the course of the year, but they know that everyone > is expected to have a least one response. > *Turn and talk is good if they're trustworthy. > > What do others do? > Judy > > > On 6/20/11, dc wrote: >> dc here, jumping in late! >> Hopefully you are all still reading these posts! >> I think my first reaction was the same as yours, Judy! Long ago, >> we all immediately realized we couldn't just ask kids to identify >> text to self connections. We realized that we had to go further >> and ask them, "And how did that connection help you understand the >> text better?" It was then and only then, that we got to deeper >> understanding through those back and forth conversations. >> >> Here's my problem that I'm hoping that all of you brilliant >> teachers can help me with. It's basically a "classroom >> management" simultaneous engagement problem. Whenever I'm engaged >> in a brilliant conversation with a child about their level of >> comprehension and we are going back and forth with questions and >> discussion, I feel the rest of the class "going to Tahiti". How >> do you keep the rest of the kids engaged with this one on one >> discussion in a small group? Obviously, in individual >> conferences, this is not an issue, but in larger group >> discussions, I find that I have to make sure not to call on kids >> with hands up, but to randomly call on kids. Then I get blank >> stares sometimes. I have tried eliciting discussion from the >> lesser involved kids using the techniques mentioned (what did your >> partner say, what would you say if you DID know the answer), but >> it takes TIME and I feel the tension and frustration from the >> faster thinkers and processors in the room. To adequately elicit >> this deeper thinking from the quieter, less-engaged students, you >> need to give them lots of time. Can you all talk about ways that >> you have dealt with this? Unfortunately, with all of the time we >> now devote to RTI, Student Success Sessions, Rotations for >> Success, and Intervention/Enrichment Blocks, we have very little >> time for long blocks of whole class modeling/guiding/discussion >> anymore.

Jun 21, 2011

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PMo .... was a variation on Think/Pair/Share (that comes from Whole Brain Teaching, I think) called "Turn and Teach". He used it mostly to reinforce key concepts or to maintain active listening. I discovered, somewhat by accident, that even though there's a small lexical shift, there's something quite prescriptive about "teaching" vs. "sharing". When s...See More.... was a variation on Think/Pair/Share (that comes from Whole Brain Teaching, I think) called "Turn and Teach". He used it mostly to reinforce key concepts or to maintain active listening. I discovered, somewhat by accident, that even though there's a small lexical shift, there's something quite prescriptive about "teaching" vs. "sharing". When someone in whole group was discussing a deeper level of application (in reading, writing, math, etc...), I would turn to the group and say something like: Well Susie Q was just discussing the way she keeps all the characters straight when just beginning a novel by mapping them out and then connecting them to people she knows. Think of a time when you have had a lot of characters to keep track of - what kind of strategies did you use, or what ideas do you have about this? Turn and teach....

Even if only about 1/2 the class was able to come up with thoughtful reflections, having one or two then share out would enable me to bring in the others who often could spark off those ideas. Or ask questions, etc...

>> What do others do? >> Judy >> >> >> On 6/20/11, dc wrote: >>> dc here, jumping in late! >>> Hopefully you are all still reading these posts! >>> I think my first reaction was the same as yours, Judy! Long ago, >>> we all immediately realized we couldn't just ask kids to identify >>> text to self connections. We realized that we had to go further >>> and ask them, "And how did that connection help you understand the >>> text better?" It was then and only then, that we got to deeper >>> understanding through those back and forth conversations. >>> >>> Here's my problem that I'm hoping that all of you brilliant >>> teachers can help me with. It's basically a "classroom >>> management" simultaneous engagement problem. Whenever I'm engaged >>> in a brilliant conversation with a child about their level of >>> comprehension and we are going back and forth with questions and >>> discussion, I feel the rest of the class "going to Tahiti". How >>> do you keep the rest of the kids engaged with this one on one >>> discussion in a small group? Obviously, in individual >>> conferences, this is not an issue, but in larger group >>> discussions, I find that I have to make sure not to call on kids >>> with hands up, but to randomly call on kids. Then I get blank >>> stares sometimes. I have tried eliciting discussion from the >>> lesser involved kids using the techniques mentioned (what did your >>> partner say, what would you say if you DID know the answer), but >>> it takes TIME and I feel the tension and frustration from the >>> faster thinkers and processors in the room. To adequately elicit >>> this deeper thinking from the quieter, less-engaged students, you >>> need to give them lots of time. Can you all talk about ways that >>> you have dealt with this? Unfortunately, with all of the time we >>> now devote to RTI, Student Success Sessions, Rotations for >>> Success, and Intervention/Enrichment Blocks, we have very little >>> time for long blocks of whole class modeling/guiding/discussion >>> anymore.

Jun 21, 2011

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dc YES, EXACTLY! It is only since I've been doing whole-brain teaching methods (not all of them, but some of them) that I've realized how little the whole class is engaged cognitively when I'm discussing back and forth with ONE child. When I ask kids to turn and teach and then I circulate to LISTEN, that is when I realize how much the quiet and slower...See MoreYES, EXACTLY! It is only since I've been doing whole-brain teaching methods (not all of them, but some of them) that I've realized how little the whole class is engaged cognitively when I'm discussing back and forth with ONE child. When I ask kids to turn and teach and then I circulate to LISTEN, that is when I realize how much the quiet and slower processors in the class just rely on the quicker speakers and thinkers. I am trying to use more of these methods. It makes me realize that when I base my judgments about how the class is doing solely on the level of thinking of my quicker students, I am way off the mark. So many of the examples that I see in the books are based on these one-on-one discussions between teacher and student. They sound so brilliant, but in the back of my mind I'm thinking, "Yeah, but if I had a video focused on the other 25 kids in the classroom, I can just imagine what they would be doing (fiddling, looking up at the ceiling, playing with their pencils, talking to a neighbor). I'm trying to make sure that ALL of the kids are engaged cognitively ALL of the time, not just a few. Judy, I really thank you for mentioning the strategy: "Joey, did you hear the brilliant thinking that Jonah just shared? Say it again and share it with Joey. I want Joey to hear it too." That's a great strategy. Not only does Joey (and his whole side of the room who just went to Tahiti) get more cognitively engaged, but Jonah gets recognition and gets to restate (and maybe even further develop) his thinking. We could even take it a step further to have Jessica (sitting next to Jonah) do the sharing with Joey and then have Jonah listen to see if Jessica stated his thinking correctly or to have him clarify it, thus getting another kid involved as well.

Our district is BIG on cognitive engagement for all learners all of the time. They never like to see one child/one teacher interactions. Consequently, I'm always reading these P.D. books with this in mind and trying to figure out ways to modify them to fit my "reality" in my district. Thanks Judy, Teri, and PMo for weighing in with your suggestions and support. I love when we get "down and dirty" with a book and float on our own sea of talk!!

Jun 21, 2011

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