My NYC Subbing Experience

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My NYC Subbing Experience

by harpazo

Aug 22, 2014

I substituted for almost 8 years. I left the DOE 2008. It is a very stressful job. Each morning I got up early hoping to receive a call for a subbing assignment. When there is no call, no money is made. It is a lost day.

The sub teacher is just a title that really means baby-sitter. I was treated like one, too. Subs are typically placed in classes no one wants to cover and for good reasons. It was a stressful job.

If the school is short on staff, the class without a sub is divided into little groups of 4 to 5 students. So, now the class that I am covering for the day has increased. Try baby-sitting a group of 30 plus kids or teens that do not want to be there in the first place and who do not respect subs thanks to official teachers and all the negative things they privately say to their students concerning sub teachers.

A sub for the day means PARTY TIME for them. They do not want to learn from the regular teacher much less from a sub. Lesson plans are ex...See More

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Neutral Observer Your post clearly reflects your attitude and most likely why you are having difficulty landing a teaching job. You sound extremely pessimistic, negative, defensive, jealous and hopeless. It is also the reason, most likely, why you are not treated "fairly" by teachers, principals, students and the whole kit and kaboodle. I read and re-read Anne's po...See MoreYour post clearly reflects your attitude and most likely why you are having difficulty landing a teaching job. You sound extremely pessimistic, negative, defensive, jealous and hopeless. It is also the reason, most likely, why you are not treated "fairly" by teachers, principals, students and the whole kit and kaboodle. I read and re-read Anne's post and see absolutely nothing negative or accusatory. She did not mention any school districts or "inner-city" schools. She was not flaunting or acting superior. It seemed to me that she was trying to give some advice. It also sounds to me like you have a closed mind and need to reflect on the real reasons you are having problems. Most subs like what they do and, although the job isn't perfect, they don't seem to have the complaints that some of the posters here have. Before you accept the first sub assignment this year, ask yourself if you are really cut out to do the job. If not, find something else. Yes, you went to college to be a teacher but if it's not working out, why beat a dead horse? Get out of the profession. (And, although jobs aren't plentiful anywhere I'm sure you can find a job doing something other than subbing). I don't intend to submit any additional posts on the subject.

On 8/26/14, pixie wrote: > It seems like this discussion keeps recurring on this board and > I am getting tired of repeating myself, so this will be the last > time. > 1. I think subs should be able to vent on this board without > someone immediately jumping all over them for having a bad > attitude, needing to change jobs, etc. Many of us would be doing > something else if we could, but for those who have not noticed, > there is a scarcity of jobs in many categories and in many > areas, especially if you are over age 40 or 50. > > 2. I no longer sub in the inner city. If your experience in a > high-poverty, gang-ridden school was not that bad, then perhaps > you were not in the worst of the worst, so kindly refrain from > judging others when you have not been in their shoes. All inner > city schools are not equally bad. Yes, the majority of kids want > to learn, but there are those who thrive on being the center of > attention, constantly disrupting class, showing off to the class > that they take instructions from no one, etc. I would gladly > teach in an inncer city school that had an administrator who > "had my back," but they are under pressure to make their AYP, > and, for some, their main school improvement plan is blaming > teachers for their own lack of leadership. They don't want to > look bad to the superintendent by having too many disciplinary > actions, so they allow kids to stay in class no matter what, and > just blame the teacher for the anti-social behavior. > RE the advice to send kids out, does it really "send a message" > if the administrator just sends the kid back in a few minutes > and the kid comes back in, smirking, "He didn't do nothin."? > > 3. Lastly, I was not reacting defensivefy on my own behalf, but > attempting to speak for all the subs who have the temerity to > complain, and then get the above-mentioned verbal rebuke by > other posters. When I subbed in a district that had an overall > decent to good behavior level among the kids, I, too, began to > feel a little self-satisfied, as if I must be pretty darn good > to be having so many successful days. Then I would be knocked > off my pededstal when I happened to be assigned an unusually > challenging class, and I would remember just how impervious some > of these kids are to all of the methods that normally are > effective. Can't we all just acknowledge that thare are some > situations that are extremely challenging, and give the stressed > out subs the benefit of the doubt (even if you have never been > in a really bad situation yourself), and offer empathy rather > than judgment? Or how about not posting at all rather than judge > and criticize other subs for having a bad attitude or whatever? > Unless of course you enjoy feeling superior. > These are my last words on the subject. In the future I will > just ignore the judgers and criticizers. > > > On 8/24/14, Tom wrote: >> Anne, >> I agree with your take on this. I subbed for several years >> while holding down a full time job. Teaching like all >> professions have people who are unpleasant, you have to deal >> with them. I had mostly good encounters with parents, >> teachers, administrators and students. Before you others >> attack me, yes I subbed in an inter-city district (Cleveland's >> Huff area). I also subbed in more affluent districts which I >> preferred, so I mostly spent my time there. If your main >> complaint is due to being inter-city, go a few more miles to >> work and enjoy the burbs. If you are miserable in all >> districts, then maybe it's you! I went through many different >> professions before finding my place in SPED ED. If you love >> the challenges that schools throw at you TEACH, if not try >> something else. >> >> >> >> On 8/24/14, Anne wrote: >>> You have illustrated my point, exactly. Why are you so >>> defensive? Why did you take my post personally? Why did >>> you not accept my advice in the spirit in which it was >>> given...to help people like you who do nothing but >>> complain? My post was GENERAL, not area or school >>> specific. I stand by my advice to those who are >>> open-minded enough to accept it - have a positive attitude >>> and be strong but fair. Also, if you cannot earn the >>> respect and decent treatment of the staff and students (as >>> many of you are stating) then something is wrong and you >>> should try to find work elsewhere. Yes, I know that is >>> opening up another can of worms. Yes, you went to school >>> to teach but some people simply don't have the right >>> stuff. Why suffer? >>> >>> On 8/24/14, pixie wrote: >>>> Here we go again on blaming subs' alleged bad attitude >>>> for their difficult experiences. Anne, if you have had >>>> nothing but good experiences, that is wonderful, and I am >>>> sure it feels great to attribute it to your own demeanor, >>>> but the OP was describing her experiences in New York >>>> City. I'll bet you do not sub in a high- poverty area >>>> with challenging inner city students. I previously worked >>>> as a "real" teacher in a very tough inner city school in >>>> a major city. In recent years I have subbed in districts >>>> whose students run the complete gamut from angry, defiant >>>> kids from low- inclme, dysfuncional families, kids who >>>> are likely to drop out, who are already living a life of >>>> crime, and who see no value whatsover in gaining an >>>> education, to the other extreme of high- achieving, >>>> beautifully mannered college-bound kids, and >>> everything >>>> in between. Subbing with students in the two opposite >>>> extremes >>> are >>>> like being in two completely different worlds. If you >>>> have never been in the really tough schools, you have no >>>> idea how resistant those kids can be to all of your >>>> magic, so you are are in no position to judge. Go spend a >>>> few months in a school where anything not nailed down >>>> will be stolen within a day, and then report back to this >>>> board. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8/24/14, Anne wrote: >>>>> I am a retired teacher who substitutes regularly. I have >>>>> read countless posts on the board about how subs are not >>>>> treated properly by students and teachers. I am a >>>>> substitute who IS treated well by everyone...students >>>>> and teachers. I do not substitute in the district in >>>>> which I worked so it's not because they know me or my >>>>> qualifications, etc. It's because I walk in the door >>>>> with confidence. I let the students know right up front >>>>> that I expect to have a good day and that I will be fair >>>>> with them but that one hand washes the other. I never >>>>> let them see me appear weak or like I don't know what >>>>> I'm doing. I always have an air of authority but also >>>>> have respect for the class. I honestly think that it's >>>>> your attitude that makes you a target for the horrible >>>>> way you say you are treated. >>>>> >>>>> On 8/24/14, Jessie....just curious.... wrote: >>>>>> I have heard similar complaints from my subbing >>>>>> friends. I'm just curious about how much a sub in NYC >>>>>> makes a day. I sure hope it's worth some of this grief! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 8/22/14, harpazo wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I substituted for almost 8 years. I left the DOE 2008. >>>>>>> It is a very stressful job. Each morning I got up >>>>>>> early hoping to receive a call for a subbing >>>>>>> assignment. When there is no call, no money is made. >>>>>>> It is a lost day. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The sub teacher is just a title that really means >>>>>>> baby-sitter. I was treated like one, too. Subs are >>>>>>> typically placed in classes no one wants to cover and >>>>>>> for good reasons. It was a stressful job. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If the school is short on staff, the class without a >>>>>>> sub is divided into little groups of 4 to 5 students. >>>>>>> So, now the class that I am covering for the day has >>>>>>> increased. Try baby-sitting a group of 30 plus kids or >>>>>>> teens that do not want to be there in the first place >>>>>>> and who do not respect subs thanks to official >>>>>>> teachers and all the negative things they privately >>>>>>> say to their students concerning sub teachers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A sub for the day means PARTY TIME for them. They do >>>>>>> not want to learn from the regular teacher much less >>>>>>> from a sub. Lesson plans are expected to be completed >>>>>>> but there are groups of students who simply do not let >>>>>>> a sub teacher teach. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The sub teacher is always wrong. The parents and kids >>>>>>> are always right. The main office staff is always >>>>>>> right. The regular teacher is always right. School >>>>>>> janitors are respected far more than subs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is sad to know that no learning takes place when a >>>>>>> sub is covering the class. Schools cover themselves by >>>>>>> stating that subs do not have classroom management >>>>>>> skills. In some cases this is true but face the truth. >>>>>>> The substitute experience can be a professional >>>>>>> journey if the DOE decided to set strict rules and >>>>>>> punishment for students who cross the line when a sub >>>>>>> teacher is visiting the classroom for the day. >>>>>>>

Aug 26, 2014

report post

harpazo On 8/26/14, Neutral Observer wrote: > Your post clearly reflects your attitude and most likely why you > are having difficulty landing a teaching job. You sound extremely > pessimistic, negative, defensive, jealous and hopeless. It is > also the reason, most likely, why you are not treated "fairly" by > teachers, principals, students...See MoreOn 8/26/14, Neutral Observer wrote: > Your post clearly reflects your attitude and most likely why you > are having difficulty landing a teaching job. You sound extremely > pessimistic, negative, defensive, jealous and hopeless. It is > also the reason, most likely, why you are not treated "fairly" by > teachers, principals, students and the whole kit and kaboodle. I > read and re-read Anne's post and see absolutely nothing negative > or accusatory. She did not mention any school districts > or "inner-city" schools. She was not flaunting or acting > superior. It seemed to me that she was trying to give some > advice. It also sounds to me like you have a closed mind and > need to reflect on the real reasons you are having problems. > Most subs like what they do and, although the job isn't perfect, > they don't seem to have the complaints that some of the posters > here have. Before you accept the first sub assignment this year, > ask yourself if you are really cut out to do the job. If not, > find something else. Yes, you went to college to be a teacher > but if it's not working out, why beat a dead horse? Get out of > the profession. (And, although jobs aren't plentiful anywhere > I'm sure you can find a job doing something other than subbing). > I don't intend to submit any additional posts on the subject.

Thanks but did you read my post carefully? I left the subbing job in 2008. I just wanted to share my experience. It is all true.

> > On 8/26/14, pixie wrote: >> It seems like this discussion keeps recurring on this board and >> I am getting tired of repeating myself, so this will be the > last >> time. >> 1. I think subs should be able to vent on this board without >> someone immediately jumping all over them for having a bad >> attitude, needing to change jobs, etc. Many of us would be > doing >> something else if we could, but for those who have not noticed, >> there is a scarcity of jobs in many categories and in many >> areas, especially if you are over age 40 or 50. >> >> 2. I no longer sub in the inner city. If your experience in a >> high-poverty, gang-ridden school was not that bad, then perhaps >> you were not in the worst of the worst, so kindly refrain from >> judging others when you have not been in their shoes. All inner >> city schools are not equally bad. Yes, the majority of kids > want >> to learn, but there are those who thrive on being the center of >> attention, constantly disrupting class, showing off to the > class >> that they take instructions from no one, etc. I would gladly >> teach in an inncer city school that had an administrator who >> "had my back," but they are under pressure to make their AYP, >> and, for some, their main school improvement plan is blaming >> teachers for their own lack of leadership. They don't want to >> look bad to the superintendent by having too many disciplinary >> actions, so they allow kids to stay in class no matter what, > and >> just blame the teacher for the anti-social behavior. >> RE the advice to send kids out, does it really "send a message" >> if the administrator just sends the kid back in a few minutes >> and the kid comes back in, smirking, "He didn't do nothin."? >> >> 3. Lastly, I was not reacting defensivefy on my own behalf, but >> attempting to speak for all the subs who have the temerity to >> complain, and then get the above-mentioned verbal rebuke by >> other posters. When I subbed in a district that had an overall >> decent to good behavior level among the kids, I, too, began to >> feel a little self-satisfied, as if I must be pretty darn good >> to be having so many successful days. Then I would be knocked >> off my pededstal when I happened to be assigned an unusually >> challenging class, and I would remember just how impervious > some >> of these kids are to all of the methods that normally are >> effective. Can't we all just acknowledge that thare are some >> situations that are extremely challenging, and give the > stressed >> out subs the benefit of the doubt (even if you have never been >> in a really bad situation yourself), and offer empathy rather >> than judgment? Or how about not posting at all rather than > judge >> and criticize other subs for having a bad attitude or whatever? >> Unless of course you enjoy feeling superior. >> These are my last words on the subject. In the future I will >> just ignore the judgers and criticizers. >> >> >> On 8/24/14, Tom wrote: >>> Anne, >>> I agree with your take on this. I subbed for several years >>> while holding down a full time job. Teaching like all >>> professions have people who are unpleasant, you have to deal >>> with them. I had mostly good encounters with parents, >>> teachers, administrators and students. Before you others >>> attack me, yes I subbed in an inter-city district (Cleveland's >>> Huff area). I also subbed in more affluent districts which I >>> preferred, so I mostly spent my time there. If your main >>> complaint is due to being inter-city, go a few more miles to >>> work and enjoy the burbs. If you are miserable in all >>> districts, then maybe it's you! I went through many different >>> professions before finding my place in SPED ED. If you love >>> the challenges that schools throw at you TEACH, if not try >>> something else. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8/24/14, Anne wrote: >>>> You have illustrated my point, exactly. Why are you so >>>> defensive? Why did you take my post personally? Why did >>>> you not accept my advice in the spirit in which it was >>>> given...to help people like you who do nothing but >>>> complain? My post was GENERAL, not area or school >>>> specific. I stand by my advice to those who are >>>> open-minded enough to accept it - have a positive attitude >>>> and be strong but fair. Also, if you cannot earn the >>>> respect and decent treatment of the staff and students (as >>>> many of you are stating) then something is wrong and you >>>> should try to find work elsewhere. Yes, I know that is >>>> opening up another can of worms. Yes, you went to school >>>> to teach but some people simply don't have the right >>>> stuff. Why suffer? >>>> >>>> On 8/24/14, pixie wrote: >>>>> Here we go again on blaming subs' alleged bad attitude >>>>> for their difficult experiences. Anne, if you have had >>>>> nothing but good experiences, that is wonderful, and I am >>>>> sure it feels great to attribute it to your own demeanor, >>>>> but the OP was describing her experiences in New York >>>>> City. I'll bet you do not sub in a high- poverty area >>>>> with challenging inner city students. I previously worked >>>>> as a "real" teacher in a very tough inner city school in >>>>> a major city. In recent years I have subbed in districts >>>>> whose students run the complete gamut from angry, defiant >>>>> kids from low- inclme, dysfuncional families, kids who >>>>> are likely to drop out, who are already living a life of >>>>> crime, and who see no value whatsover in gaining an >>>>> education, to the other extreme of high- achieving, >>>>> beautifully mannered college-bound kids, and >>>> everything >>>>> in between. Subbing with students in the two opposite >>>>> extremes >>>> are >>>>> like being in two completely different worlds. If you >>>>> have never been in the really tough schools, you have no >>>>> idea how resistant those kids can be to all of your >>>>> magic, so you are are in no position to judge. Go spend a >>>>> few months in a school where anything not nailed down >>>>> will be stolen within a day, and then report back to this >>>>> board. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 8/24/14, Anne wrote: >>>>>> I am a retired teacher who substitutes regularly. I have >>>>>> read countless posts on the board about how subs are not >>>>>> treated properly by students and teachers. I am a >>>>>> substitute who IS treated well by everyone...students >>>>>> and teachers. I do not substitute in the district in >>>>>> which I worked so it's not because they know me or my >>>>>> qualifications, etc. It's because I walk in the door >>>>>> with confidence. I let the students know right up front >>>>>> that I expect to have a good day and that I will be fair >>>>>> with them but that one hand washes the other. I never >>>>>> let them see me appear weak or like I don't know what >>>>>> I'm doing. I always have an air of authority but also >>>>>> have respect for the class. I honestly think that it's >>>>>> your attitude that makes you a target for the horrible >>>>>> way you say you are treated. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 8/24/14, Jessie....just curious.... wrote: >>>>>>> I have heard similar complaints from my subbing >>>>>>> friends. I'm just curious about how much a sub in NYC >>>>>>> makes a day. I sure hope it's worth some of this grief! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/22/14, harpazo wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I substituted for almost 8 years. I left the DOE 2008. >>>>>>>> It is a very stressful job. Each morning I got up >>>>>>>> early hoping to receive a call for a subbing >>>>>>>> assignment. When there is no call, no money is made. >>>>>>>> It is a lost day. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The sub teacher is just a title that really means >>>>>>>> baby-sitter. I was treated like one, too. Subs are >>>>>>>> typically placed in classes no one wants to cover and >>>>>>>> for good reasons. It was a stressful job. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If the school is short on staff, the class without a >>>>>>>> sub is divided into little groups of 4 to 5 students. >>>>>>>> So, now the class that I am covering for the day has >>>>>>>> increased. Try baby- sitting a group of 30 plus kids or >>>>>>>> teens that do not want to be there in the first place >>>>>>>> and who do not respect subs thanks to official >>>>>>>> teachers and all the negative things they privately >>>>>>>> say to their students concerning sub teachers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A sub for the day means PARTY TIME for them. They do >>>>>>>> not want to learn from the regular teacher much less >>>>>>>> from a sub. Lesson plans are expected to be completed >>>>>>>> but there are groups of students who simply do not let >>>>>>>> a sub teacher teach. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The sub teacher is always wrong. The parents and kids >>>>>>>> are always right. The main office staff is always >>>>>>>> right. The regular teacher is always right. School >>>>>>>> janitors are respected far more than subs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is sad to know that no learning takes place when a >>>>>>>> sub is covering the class. Schools cover themselves by >>>>>>>> stating that subs do not have classroom management >>>>>>>> skills. In some cases this is true but face the truth. >>>>>>>> The substitute experience can be a professional >>>>>>>> journey if the DOE decided to set strict rules and >>>>>>>> punishment for students who cross the line when a sub >>>>>>>> teacher is visiting the classroom for the day. >>>>>>>>

Aug 27, 2014

report post

harpazo On 8/26/14, pixie wrote: > It seems like this discussion keeps recurring on this board and > I am getting tired of repeating myself, so this will be the last > time. > 1. I think subs should be able to vent on this board without > someone immediately jumping all over them for having a bad > attitude, needing to change jobs, etc. M...See MoreOn 8/26/14, pixie wrote: > It seems like this discussion keeps recurring on this board and > I am getting tired of repeating myself, so this will be the last > time. > 1. I think subs should be able to vent on this board without > someone immediately jumping all over them for having a bad > attitude, needing to change jobs, etc. Many of us would be doing > something else if we could, but for those who have not noticed, > there is a scarcity of jobs in many categories and in many > areas, especially if you are over age 40 or 50. > > 2. I no longer sub in the inner city. If your experience in a > high-poverty, gang-ridden school was not that bad, then perhaps > you were not in the worst of the worst, so kindly refrain from > judging others when you have not been in their shoes. All inner > city schools are not equally bad. Yes, the majority of kids want > to learn, but there are those who thrive on being the center of > attention, constantly disrupting class, showing off to the class > that they take instructions from no one, etc. I would gladly > teach in an inncer city school that had an administrator who > "had my back," but they are under pressure to make their AYP, > and, for some, their main school improvement plan is blaming > teachers for their own lack of leadership. They don't want to > look bad to the superintendent by having too many disciplinary > actions, so they allow kids to stay in class no matter what, and > just blame the teacher for the anti-social behavior. > RE the advice to send kids out, does it really "send a message" > if the administrator just sends the kid back in a few minutes > and the kid comes back in, smirking, "He didn't do nothin."? > > 3. Lastly, I was not reacting defensivefy on my own behalf, but > attempting to speak for all the subs who have the temerity to > complain, and then get the above-mentioned verbal rebuke by > other posters. When I subbed in a district that had an overall > decent to good behavior level among the kids, I, too, began to > feel a little self-satisfied, as if I must be pretty darn good > to be having so many successful days. Then I would be knocked > off my pededstal when I happened to be assigned an unusually > challenging class, and I would remember just how impervious some > of these kids are to all of the methods that normally are > effective. Can't we all just acknowledge that thare are some > situations that are extremely challenging, and give the stressed > out subs the benefit of the doubt (even if you have never been > in a really bad situation yourself), and offer empathy rather > than judgment? Or how about not posting at all rather than judge > and criticize other subs for having a bad attitude or whatever? > Unless of course you enjoy feeling superior. > These are my last words on the subject. In the future I will > just ignore the judgers and criticizers. >

Thanks but did you read my post carefully? I left the subbing job in 2008. I just wanted to share my experience. It is all true.

> > On 8/24/14, Tom wrote: >> Anne, >> I agree with your take on this. I subbed for several years >> while holding down a full time job. Teaching like all >> professions have people who are unpleasant, you have to deal >> with them. I had mostly good encounters with parents, >> teachers, administrators and students. Before you others >> attack me, yes I subbed in an inter-city district (Cleveland's >> Huff area). I also subbed in more affluent districts which I >> preferred, so I mostly spent my time there. If your main >> complaint is due to being inter-city, go a few more miles to >> work and enjoy the burbs. If you are miserable in all >> districts, then maybe it's you! I went through many different >> professions before finding my place in SPED ED. If you love >> the challenges that schools throw at you TEACH, if not try >> something else. >> >> >> >> On 8/24/14, Anne wrote: >>> You have illustrated my point, exactly. Why are you so >>> defensive? Why did you take my post personally? Why did >>> you not accept my advice in the spirit in which it was >>> given...to help people like you who do nothing but >>> complain? My post was GENERAL, not area or school >>> specific. I stand by my advice to those who are >>> open-minded enough to accept it - have a positive attitude >>> and be strong but fair. Also, if you cannot earn the >>> respect and decent treatment of the staff and students (as >>> many of you are stating) then something is wrong and you >>> should try to find work elsewhere. Yes, I know that is >>> opening up another can of worms. Yes, you went to school >>> to teach but some people simply don't have the right >>> stuff. Why suffer? >>> >>> On 8/24/14, pixie wrote: >>>> Here we go again on blaming subs' alleged bad attitude >>>> for their difficult experiences. Anne, if you have had >>>> nothing but good experiences, that is wonderful, and I am >>>> sure it feels great to attribute it to your own demeanor, >>>> but the OP was describing her experiences in New York >>>> City. I'll bet you do not sub in a high- poverty area >>>> with challenging inner city students. I previously worked >>>> as a "real" teacher in a very tough inner city school in >>>> a major city. In recent years I have subbed in districts >>>> whose students run the complete gamut from angry, defiant >>>> kids from low- inclme, dysfuncional families, kids who >>>> are likely to drop out, who are already living a life of >>>> crime, and who see no value whatsover in gaining an >>>> education, to the other extreme of high- achieving, >>>> beautifully mannered college-bound kids, and >>> everything >>>> in between. Subbing with students in the two opposite >>>> extremes >>> are >>>> like being in two completely different worlds. If you >>>> have never been in the really tough schools, you have no >>>> idea how resistant those kids can be to all of your >>>> magic, so you are are in no position to judge. Go spend a >>>> few months in a school where anything not nailed down >>>> will be stolen within a day, and then report back to this >>>> board. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8/24/14, Anne wrote: >>>>> I am a retired teacher who substitutes regularly. I have >>>>> read countless posts on the board about how subs are not >>>>> treated properly by students and teachers. I am a >>>>> substitute who IS treated well by everyone...students >>>>> and teachers. I do not substitute in the district in >>>>> which I worked so it's not because they know me or my >>>>> qualifications, etc. It's because I walk in the door >>>>> with confidence. I let the students know right up front >>>>> that I expect to have a good day and that I will be fair >>>>> with them but that one hand washes the other. I never >>>>> let them see me appear weak or like I don't know what >>>>> I'm doing. I always have an air of authority but also >>>>> have respect for the class. I honestly think that it's >>>>> your attitude that makes you a target for the horrible >>>>> way you say you are treated. >>>>> >>>>> On 8/24/14, Jessie....just curious.... wrote: >>>>>> I have heard similar complaints from my subbing >>>>>> friends. I'm just curious about how much a sub in NYC >>>>>> makes a day. I sure hope it's worth some of this grief! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 8/22/14, harpazo wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I substituted for almost 8 years. I left the DOE 2008. >>>>>>> It is a very stressful job. Each morning I got up >>>>>>> early hoping to receive a call for a subbing >>>>>>> assignment. When there is no call, no money is made. >>>>>>> It is a lost day. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The sub teacher is just a title that really means >>>>>>> baby-sitter. I was treated like one, too. Subs are >>>>>>> typically placed in classes no one wants to cover and >>>>>>> for good reasons. It was a stressful job. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If the school is short on staff, the class without a >>>>>>> sub is divided into little groups of 4 to 5 students. >>>>>>> So, now the class that I am covering for the day has >>>>>>> increased. Try baby- sitting a group of 30 plus kids or >>>>>>> teens that do not want to be there in the first place >>>>>>> and who do not respect subs thanks to official >>>>>>> teachers and all the negative things they privately >>>>>>> say to their students concerning sub teachers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A sub for the day means PARTY TIME for them. They do >>>>>>> not want to learn from the regular teacher much less >>>>>>> from a sub. Lesson plans are expected to be completed >>>>>>> but there are groups of students who simply do not let >>>>>>> a sub teacher teach. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The sub teacher is always wrong. The parents and kids >>>>>>> are always right. The main office staff is always >>>>>>> right. The regular teacher is always right. School >>>>>>> janitors are respected far more than subs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is sad to know that no learning takes place when a >>>>>>> sub is covering the class. Schools cover themselves by >>>>>>> stating that subs do not have classroom management >>>>>>> skills. In some cases this is true but face the truth. >>>>>>> The substitute experience can be a professional >>>>>>> journey if the DOE decided to set strict rules and >>>>>>> punishment for students who cross the line when a sub >>>>>>> teacher is visiting the classroom for the day. >>>>>>>

Aug 27, 2014

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The rules of posting are clear..... Quote only when NECESSARY!

The last post ran a quote longer than Rip Van Winkle's beard!

Just highlight and hit the space bar to eliminate previous messages.

That way, your post will be nice and clear and not BE LOST in a FREEEEEEEEEEKIN' mile of previous posts!

Thank you! :):):)

Aug 27, 2014

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Neutral Observer to Harpazo Harpazo - My post was not directed to you. It was a response to the previous poster's comments. On 8/27/14, harpazo wrote: > On 8/26/14, Neutral Observer wrote: >> Your post clearly reflects your > attitude and most likely why you >> are having difficulty landing a > teaching job. You sound extremely >> pessimistic, negat...See MoreHarpazo - My post was not directed to you. It was a response to the previous poster's comments. On 8/27/14, harpazo wrote: > On 8/26/14, Neutral Observer wrote: >> Your post clearly reflects your > attitude and most likely why you >> are having difficulty landing a > teaching job. You sound extremely >> pessimistic, negative, defensive, > jealous and hopeless. It is >> also the reason, most likely, > why you are not treated "fairly" by >> teachers, principals, students > and the whole kit and kaboodle. I >> read and re-read Anne's post > and see absolutely nothing negative >> or accusatory. She did not > mention any school districts >> or "inner-city" schools. She was > not flaunting or acting >> superior. It seemed to me that > she was trying to give some >> advice. It also sounds to me like > you have a closed mind and >> need to reflect on the real > reasons you are having problems. >> Most subs like what they do > and, although the job isn't perfect, >> they don't seem to have the > complaints that some of the posters >> here have. Before you accept > the first sub assignment this year, >> ask yourself if you are really > cut out to do the job. If not, >> find something else. Yes, you > went to college to be a teacher >> but if it's not working out, why > beat a dead horse? Get out of >> the profession. (And, although > jobs aren't plentiful anywhere >> I'm sure you can find a job > doing something other than subbing). >> I don't intend to submit any > additional posts on the subject. > > > Thanks but did you read my post carefully? I left the > subbing job in 2008. I just wanted to share my experience. > It is all true. > > > > >> >> On 8/26/14, pixie wrote: >>> It seems like this discussion > keeps recurring on this board and >>> I am getting tired of repeating > myself, so this will be the >> last >>> time. 1. I think subs should be able > to vent on this board without >>> someone immediately > jumping all over them for having a bad >>> attitude, needing to change > jobs, etc. Many of us would be >> doing >>> something else if we could, > but for those who have not noticed, >>> there is a scarcity of jobs in > many categories and in many >>> areas, especially if you are > over age 40 or 50. >>> >>> 2. I no longer sub in the inner > city. If your experience in a >>> high-poverty, gang-ridden > school was not that bad, then perhaps >>> you were not in the worst of > the worst, so kindly refrain from >>> judging others when you have > not been in their shoes. All inner >>> city schools are not equally > bad. Yes, the majority of kids >> want >>> to learn, but there are those > who thrive on being the center of >>> attention, constantly > disrupting class, showing off to the >> class >>> that they take instructions > from no one, etc. I would gladly >>> teach in an inncer city school > that had an administrator who >>> "had my back," but they are > under pressure to make their AYP, >>> and, for some, their main > school improvement plan is blaming >>> teachers for their own lack of > leadership. They don't want to >>> look bad to the superintendent > by having too many disciplinary >>> actions, so they allow kids to > stay in class no matter what, >> and >>> just blame the teacher for the > anti-social behavior. >>> RE the advice to send kids out, > does it really "send a message" >>> if the administrator just sends > the kid back in a few minutes >>> and the kid comes back in, > smirking, "He didn't do nothin."? >>> >>> 3. Lastly, I was not reacting > defensivefy on my own behalf, but >>> attempting to speak for all the > subs who have the temerity to >>> complain, and then get the > above-mentioned verbal rebuke by >>> other posters. When I subbed > in a district that had an overall >>> decent to good behavior level > among the kids, I, too, began to >>> feel a little self-satisfied, as if I > must be pretty darn good >>> to be having so many > successful days. Then I would be knocked >>> off my pededstal when I > happened to be assigned an unusually >>> challenging class, and I would > remember just how impervious >> some >>> of these kids are to all of the > methods that normally are >>> effective. Can't we all just > acknowledge that thare are some >>> situations that are extremely > challenging, and give the >> stressed >>> out subs the benefit of the > doubt (even if you have never been >>> in a really bad situation > yourself), and offer empathy rather >>> than judgment? Or how about > not posting at all rather than >> judge >>> and criticize other subs for > having a bad attitude or whatever? >>> Unless of course you enjoy > feeling superior. >>> These are my last words on > the subject. In the future I will >>> just ignore the judgers and > criticizers. >>> >>> >>> On 8/24/14, Tom wrote: >>>> Anne, I agree with your take on > this. I subbed for several years >>>> while holding down a full > time job. Teaching like all >>>> professions have people who > are unpleasant, you have to deal >>>> with them. I had mostly good > encounters with parents, >>>> teachers, administrators and > students. Before you others >>>> attack me, yes I subbed in an > inter-city district (Cleveland's >>>> Huff area). I also subbed in > more affluent districts which I >>>> preferred, so I mostly spent > my time there. If your main >>>> complaint is due to being > inter-city, go a few more miles to >>>> work and enjoy the burbs. If > you are miserable in all >>>> districts, then maybe it's you! > I went through many different >>>> professions before finding > my place in SPED ED. If you love >>>> the challenges that schools > throw at you TEACH, if not try >>>> something else. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8/24/14, Anne wrote: >>>>> You have illustrated my > point, exactly. Why are you so >>>>> defensive? Why did you > take my post personally? Why did >>>>> you not accept my advice in > the spirit in which it was >>>>> given...to help people like > you who do nothing but >>>>> complain? My post was > GENERAL, not area or school >>>>> specific. I stand by my > advice to those who are >>>>> open-minded enough to > accept it - have a positive attitude >>>>> and be strong but fair. Also, > if you cannot earn the >>>>> respect and decent > treatment of the staff and students (as >>>>> many of you are stating) > then something is wrong and you >>>>> should try to find work > elsewhere. Yes, I know that is >>>>> opening up another can of > worms. Yes, you went to school >>>>> to teach but some people > simply don't have the right >>>>> stuff. Why suffer? >>>>> >>>>> On 8/24/14, pixie wrote: >>>>>> Here we go again on > blaming subs' alleged bad attitude >>>>>> for their difficult > experiences. Anne, if you have had >>>>>> nothing but good > experiences, that is wonderful, and I am >>>>>> sure it feels great to > attribute it to your own demeanor, >>>>>> but the OP was describing > her experiences in New York >>>>>> City. I'll bet you do not sub > in a high- poverty area >>>>>> with challenging inner city > students. I previously worked >>>>>> as a "real" teacher in a > very tough inner city school in >>>>>> a major city. In recent > years I have subbed in districts >>>>>> whose students run the > complete gamut from angry, defiant >>>>>> kids from low- inclme, > dysfuncional families, kids who >>>>>> are likely to drop out, who > are already living a life of >>>>>> crime, and who see no > value whatsover in gaining an >>>>>> education, to the other > extreme of high- achieving, >>>>>> beautifully mannered > college-bound kids, and >>>>> everything >>>>>> in between. Subbing with > students in the two opposite >>>>>> extremes >>>>> are >>>>>> like being in two > completely different worlds. If you >>>>>> have never been in the > really tough schools, you have no >>>>>> idea how resistant those > kids can be to all of your >>>>>> magic, so you are are in no > position to judge. Go spend a >>>>>> few months in a school > where anything not nailed down >>>>>> will be stolen within a day, > and then report back to this >>>>>> board. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 8/24/14, Anne wrote: >>>>>>> I am a retired teacher > who substitutes regularly. I have >>>>>>> read countless posts on > the board about how subs are not >>>>>>> treated properly by > students and teachers. I am a >>>>>>> substitute who IS treated > well by everyone...students >>>>>>> and teachers. I do not > substitute in the district in >>>>>>> which I worked so it's not > because they know me or my >>>>>>> qualifications, etc. It's > because I walk in the door >>>>>>> with confidence. I let the > students know right up front >>>>>>> that I expect to have a > good day and that I will be fair >>>>>>> with them but that one > hand washes the other. I never >>>>>>> let them see me appear > weak or like I don't know what >>>>>>> I'm doing. I always have > an air of authority but also >>>>>>> have respect for the class. > I honestly think that it's >>>>>>> your attitude that makes > you a target for the horrible >>>>>>> way you say you are > treated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/24/14, Jessie....just > curious.... wrote: >>>>>>>> I have heard similar > complaints from my subbing >>>>>>>> friends. I'm just curious > about how much a sub in NYC >>>>>>>> makes a day. I sure hope > it's worth some of this grief! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 8/22/14, harpazo > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I substituted for almost > 8 years. I left the DOE 2008. >>>>>>>>> It is a very stressful job. > Each morning I got up >>>>>>>>> early hoping to receive > a call for a subbing >>>>>>>>> assignment. When > there is no call, no money is made. >>>>>>>>> It is a lost day. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The sub teacher is just > a title that really means >>>>>>>>> baby-sitter. I was > treated like one, too. Subs are >>>>>>>>> typically placed in > classes no one wants to cover and >>>>>>>>> for good reasons. It > was a stressful job. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If the school is short on > staff, the class without a >>>>>>>>> sub is divided into little > groups of 4 to 5 students. >>>>>>>>> So, now the class that I > am covering for the day has >>>>>>>>> increased. Try baby- > sitting a group of 30 plus kids or >>>>>>>>> teens that do not want > to be there in the first place >>>>>>>>> and who do not respect > subs thanks to official >>>>>>>>> teachers and all the > negative things they privately >>>>>>>>> say to their students > concerning sub teachers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A sub for the day > means PARTY TIME for them. They do >>>>>>>>> not want to learn from > the regular teacher much less >>>>>>>>> from a sub. Lesson > plans are expected to be completed >>>>>>>>> but there are groups of > students who simply do not let >>>>>>>>> a sub teacher teach. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The sub teacher is > always wrong. The parents and kids >>>>>>>>> are always right. The > main office staff is always >>>>>>>>> right. The regular > teacher is always right. School >>>>>>>>> janitors are respected > far more than subs. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is sad to know that > no learning takes place when a >>>>>>>>> sub is covering the > class. Schools cover themselves by >>>>>>>>> stating that subs do not > have classroom management >>>>>>>>> skills. In some cases > this is true but face the truth. >>>>>>>>> The substitute > experience can be a professional >>>>>>>>> journey if the DOE > decided to set strict rules and >>>>>>>>> punishment for > students who cross the line when a sub >>>>>>>>> teacher is visiting the > classroom for the day. >>>>>>>>>

Aug 27, 2014

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