No fear/no respect

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No fear/no respect

by Kurt Mu

Mar 16, 2016

I feel the way I do because kids today have no respect and no fear for anyone and anything.

I lived in New York City and obeyed my parents no matter what.

They told me that if I didn't behave they would sent me to the electric chair.

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Lee On 3/16/16, Kurt Mu wrote: > I feel the way I do because kids today have no respect > and no fear for anyone and anything. > > I lived in New York City and obeyed my parents no matter > what. > > They told me that if I didn't behave they would sent me to > the electric chair.

There is a huge difference between feari...See More

Mar 18, 2016

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pixie Lee, I agree with you about respect versus fear, especially if your students are growing up in violent gang-ridden neighborhood, where there is nothing you can do that would scare them anyway. But your comment about getting back what you give makes it sound, inaccurately in my opinion, as if you have more control over the situation than I believe y...See MoreLee, I agree with you about respect versus fear, especially if your students are growing up in violent gang-ridden neighborhood, where there is nothing you can do that would scare them anyway. But your comment about getting back what you give makes it sound, inaccurately in my opinion, as if you have more control over the situation than I believe you may have in some situations. It sounds to me like you were very fortunate in where you taught and probably with the administration that you had. For example, you say you were tough but fair. I know we all would like to think we have some above-average ability with difficult kids, but if you felt you had any leverage or power at all to even be tough, I wonder where that came from. It may have been a product of the environment to some extent, and not solely from you. I think what the other poster meant by fear is student expectation that you have the power to inflict consequences of some sort. But if you have no power to remove a student from your class, because if they go to the office the admin will send them right back, or if you assign detention they will not show up, what power do you have? If they cuss you out if you speak them in a kind but firm tone about misbehavior, I am not sure what you really can do. They had so much distrust from being betrayed by so many adults for their whole lives that they seemed impervious to my kindness and respect. My students would say things like; you have to earn respect, but what they meant was, you have no right to be treated with any respect, or even any human decency, and we will treat you horribly unless or until we decide you have a right to be treated any better. This attitude gave them a sense of power. Have you heard about the new book, “The Battle for Room 314: My Year of Hope and Despair in a New York City High School,” by Ed Boland? I have not read it but from the excerpts, his experience sounds similar to mine, except that I did not resign, I was nonrenewed. My main point is, please be open to the possibility that your experiences were atypical and may not be applicable to the struggles that others may experience.(Why am I expecting you to disagree with me?)

On 3/18/16, Lee wrote: > On 3/16/16, Kurt Mu wrote: >> I feel the way I do because kids today have no respect >> and no fear for anyone and anything. >> >> I lived in New York City and obeyed my parents no matter >> what. >> >> They told me that if I didn't behave they would sent me > to >> the electric chair. > > There is a huge difference between fearing someone and > respecting them. My students don't fear me but for the > most part, they do respect me. You reap what you sow, it > doesn't matter where you live. Students react to the way > they are treated. If you treat them with respect, more > often than not, you will get respect in return. I worked > in an inner city school for two years as a sub. I didn't > have many problems. I had a reputation for being tough but > fair and the kids respected that. They also knew that they > could come to me with a problem and I would do my best to > help them or direct them to someone who could. > > Attitude goes both ways.

Mar 19, 2016

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Lee Pixie,

You are right, there are a lot of factors here. I can only speak of my own experiences. For the most part, the administrators did back me up and one of the reasons that they did so was because I didn't make a habit of tossing kids out of the room. Teachers who did so habitually, didn't get as much back up.

I had kids who we...See MorePixie,

You are right, there are a lot of factors here. I can only speak of my own experiences. For the most part, the administrators did back me up and one of the reasons that they did so was because I didn't make a habit of tossing kids out of the room. Teachers who did so habitually, didn't get as much back up.

I had kids who were big on respect as long as it was directed towards them, they forgot about it being a two way street and I reminded them of that. I didn't yell, I spoke to them. It makes a difference. I never threatened something unless I could back it up. Kids talk, the students I had knew how I was when they walked in the door.

I am finally working full time now and the administrators are pretty good. This is not an inner city school but it is not without problems. No school is, the problems are just different.

My Mom taught in the Bronx a long time ago and it was a hot mess then. My cousin just retired and his wife is a guidance counselor, also in the Bronx. I really feel that many of the problems are from administration whose hands are ties by the bureaucracy that is running education in this country instead of listening to those in the trenches (the teachers) but what else is new?

On 3/19/16, pixie wrote: > Lee, > I agree with you about respect versus fear, especially if > your students are growing up in violent gang-ridden > neighborhood, where there is nothing you can do that would > scare them anyway. But your comment about getting back what > you give makes it sound, inaccurately in my opinion, as if > you have more control over the situation than I believe you > may have in some situations. It sounds to me like you were > very fortunate in where you taught and probably with the > administration that you had. For example, you say you were > tough but fair. I know we all would like to think we have > some above-average ability with difficult kids, but if you > felt you had any leverage or power at all to even be tough, I > wonder where that came from. It may have been a product of > the environment to some extent, and not solely from you. I > think what the other poster meant by fear is student > expectation that you have the power to inflict consequences > of some sort. But if you have no power to remove a student > from your class, because if they go to the office the admin > will send them right back, or if you assign detention they > will not show up, what power do you have? If they cuss you > out if you speak them in a kind but firm tone about > misbehavior, I am not sure what you really can do. They had > so much distrust from being betrayed by so many adults for > their whole lives that they seemed impervious to my kindness > and respect. My students would say things like; you have to > earn respect, but what they meant was, you have no right to > be treated with any respect, or even any human decency, and > we will treat you horribly unless or until we decide you have > a right to be treated any better. This attitude gave them a > sense of power. Have you heard about the new book, “The > Battle for Room 314: My Year of Hope and Despair in a New > York City High School,” by Ed Boland? I have not read it but > from the excerpts, his experience sounds similar to mine, > except that I did not resign, I was nonrenewed. My main point > is, please be open to the possibility that your experiences > were atypical and may not be applicable to the struggles that > others may experience.(Why am I expecting you to disagree > with me?) > >

Mar 19, 2016

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