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Dept Head Position

by Dave -> Thomas

Mar 10, 2011

English Foundation School in Hong Kong is looking for a Special Education Department Head.

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Dave Two salaries are better then one. Okay, so hypothetically would you break the contract if EFS offered BOTH of you positions?

I'm asking because my contract in Italy is for another year but our sister school in Paris (France) has started to discuss a compensation package and I'm very tempted.

On 3/12/11, D, Thomas wrote: > We'...See MoreTwo salaries are better then one. Okay, so hypothetically would you break the contract if EFS offered BOTH of you positions?

I'm asking because my contract in Italy is for another year but our sister school in Paris (France) has started to discuss a compensation package and I'm very tempted.

On 3/12/11, D, Thomas wrote: > We're under contract through the 2011-2012 school year. We are > actually leaning towards staying another year after that since all > of our bills/moving etc will be paid off/caught up and we could > really build up a nice nest egg. And their package is good but not > great compared to our current gigs if only one of us is teaching > fulltime. So, who knows, not for the fall, but maybe we will check > it out for the following year. > > On 3/12/11, Dave wrote: >> Ok fair enough, so its still early for 2011-2012, why not apply >> with them now for next year? If they are the type of school, >> location, position you want to be at why not now? >> >> On 3/12/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>> I was actually leaning towards taking the bird in the >>> hand, but my wife had serious reservations and I really >>> couldn't address them all. It was also our first >>> experience with DoDDS and we did get one interview for >>> Yokota while we were still in Japan, so it was a bit >>> deceiving. And in the end, the two years in NY were good >>> for me professionally and led to our great positions here, >>> so it wasn't a disastrous decision. And hopefully not my >>> last chance with them. >>> >>> >>> On 3/12/11, Dave wrote: >>>> *Sigh* I understand, context within the time frame >>>> makes all the difference. >>>> Hindsight being 20/20 and all. You really were one of >>>> those "fingers crossed" DoDDS people??? >>>> >>>> >>>> On 3/11/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>> Well, ironically, we were still in Japan the first >>>>> time I applied to ESF. I was offered a position but >>>>> my wife wasn't. We were nervous about supporting a >>>>> family on one salary and weren't certain about the >>>>> arrangements for my son. Also, in the ironic to >>>>> pathetic category, we were still hopeful DoDDS or >>>>> something else would come along (this was in February >>>>> of that year). It didn't and we ended up back in the >>>>> states for 2 years. This past time I had already >>>>> accepted my current position and was really excited >>>>> about the growth potential for the school and >>>>> position. ESF would be great (I think) but it's a >>>>> very established organization and the opportunities >>>>> for SPED students in HK are plentiful and well >>>>> established (compared to most of the rest of the >>>>> world). So although you would be making a difference >>>>> within that school and for those/students and their >>>>> families, it's here in Beijing that we're really >>>>> pioneering and trying to stretch the opportunties >>>>> available. >>>>> >>>>> On 3/11/11, Dave wrote: >>>>>> Well maybe this is a nod from the karma gods >>>>>> aligning your stars, its a sign thomas, a sign.... >>>>>> >>>>>> Now im curious why did you decline a position with >>>>>> them? I mean I know the school your at isnt a chump >>>>>> school or anything but ESF is one of those schools >>>>>> you can end your career at you know? Its the >>>>>> equivilent of a DoDDS position in the international >>>>>> school community, and its even in a prime location >>>>>> for asia (its usually a toss up between hk and >>>>>> singapore for 1st place with Tokyo a solid second) >>>>>> and as the department head youd be in a position to >>>>>> shape the field in a region that sorely needs it??? >>>>>> Don't you want to make a difference, and i mean >>>>>> making a difference in the "big picture" >>>>>> type of way, champion the cause, fight the good >>>>>> fight??? >>>>>> >>>>>> Im not saying I'd leave europe for HK, but for the >>>>>> right school/position I could be persuaded... If >>>>>> ESF offered me an IB cord. position or head in >>>>>> science and i could bring Amellia, and the >>>>>> compensation was right (and looks like it would be) >>>>>> I'd go... >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/11/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>>> Ha, Ha. Rub it in. Actually, I've already turned >>>>>>> them down twice for various reasons (although not >>>>>>> for a Dept. Head) and the next time I apply it >>>>>>> will be to take a job if offered. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> itOn 3/11/11, Dave wrote: >>>>>>>> Sorry, it's just one of those super elite >>>>>>>> schools, and they have a great package, and its >>>>>>>> Hong Kong, and special ed as we've discussed is >>>>>>>> a niche area.... It couldnt hurt to apply could >>>>>>>> it??? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/11/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>>>>> Arrgh. Don't remind me. I love my job >>>>>>>>> (mostly) and we are enjoying Beijing but I >>>>>>>>> hope those kind of jobs are open when my >>>>>>>>> contract is up and we're ready to move on. >>>>>>>>> ESF and HK would be a great next stop. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 3/10/11, Dave -> Thomas wrote: English >>>>>>>>>> Foundation School in Hong Kong is looking >>>>>>>>>> for a Special Education Department Head.

Mar 12, 2011

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D. Thomas I wouldn't break contract here as I really have a lot invested in the success of our program. I also don't want to be even tempted, so that's why we won't apply until we are in a position to commit.

Wouldn't the sister school have a problem with you jumping to the other sister (if you were to give into the temptation)?

really want...See MoreI wouldn't break contract here as I really have a lot invested in the success of our program. I also don't want to be even tempted, so that's why we won't apply until we are in a position to commit.

Wouldn't the sister school have a problem with you jumping to the other sister (if you were to give into the temptation)?

really want to be tempted. So that's why I don't really wantOn 3/12/11, Dave wrote: > Two salaries are better then one. Okay, so hypothetically would you > break the contract if EFS offered BOTH of you positions? > > I'm asking because my contract in Italy is for another year but our > sister school in Paris (France) has started to discuss a compensation > package and I'm very tempted. > > On 3/12/11, D, Thomas wrote: >> We're under contract through the 2011-2012 school year. We are >> actually leaning towards staying another year after that since all >> of our bills/moving etc will be paid off/caught up and we could >> really build up a nice nest egg. And their package is good but not >> great compared to our current gigs if only one of us is teaching >> fulltime. So, who knows, not for the fall, but maybe we will check >> it out for the following year. >> >> On 3/12/11, Dave wrote: >>> Ok fair enough, so its still early for 2011-2012, why not apply >>> with them now for next year? If they are the type of school, >>> location, position you want to be at why not now? >>> >>> On 3/12/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>> I was actually leaning towards taking the bird in the >>>> hand, but my wife had serious reservations and I really >>>> couldn't address them all. It was also our first >>>> experience with DoDDS and we did get one interview for >>>> Yokota while we were still in Japan, so it was a bit >>>> deceiving. And in the end, the two years in NY were good >>>> for me professionally and led to our great positions here, >>>> so it wasn't a disastrous decision. And hopefully not my >>>> last chance with them. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 3/12/11, Dave wrote: >>>>> *Sigh* I understand, context within the time frame >>>>> makes all the difference. >>>>> Hindsight being 20/20 and all. You really were one of >>>>> those "fingers crossed" DoDDS people??? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3/11/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>> Well, ironically, we were still in Japan the first >>>>>> time I applied to ESF. I was offered a position but >>>>>> my wife wasn't. We were nervous about supporting a >>>>>> family on one salary and weren't certain about the >>>>>> arrangements for my son. Also, in the ironic to >>>>>> pathetic category, we were still hopeful DoDDS or >>>>>> something else would come along (this was in February >>>>>> of that year). It didn't and we ended up back in the >>>>>> states for 2 years. This past time I had already >>>>>> accepted my current position and was really excited >>>>>> about the growth potential for the school and >>>>>> position. ESF would be great (I think) but it's a >>>>>> very established organization and the opportunities >>>>>> for SPED students in HK are plentiful and well >>>>>> established (compared to most of the rest of the >>>>>> world). So although you would be making a difference >>>>>> within that school and for those/students and their >>>>>> families, it's here in Beijing that we're really >>>>>> pioneering and trying to stretch the opportunties >>>>>> available. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/11/11, Dave wrote: >>>>>>> Well maybe this is a nod from the karma gods >>>>>>> aligning your stars, its a sign thomas, a sign.... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now im curious why did you decline a position with >>>>>>> them? I mean I know the school your at isnt a chump >>>>>>> school or anything but ESF is one of those schools >>>>>>> you can end your career at you know? Its the >>>>>>> equivilent of a DoDDS position in the international >>>>>>> school community, and its even in a prime location >>>>>>> for asia (its usually a toss up between hk and >>>>>>> singapore for 1st place with Tokyo a solid second) >>>>>>> and as the department head youd be in a position to >>>>>>> shape the field in a region that sorely needs it??? >>>>>>> Don't you want to make a difference, and i mean >>>>>>> making a difference in the "big picture" >>>>>>> type of way, champion the cause, fight the good >>>>>>> fight??? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Im not saying I'd leave europe for HK, but for the >>>>>>> right school/position I could be persuaded... If >>>>>>> ESF offered me an IB cord. position or head in >>>>>>> science and i could bring Amellia, and the >>>>>>> compensation was right (and looks like it would be) >>>>>>> I'd go... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/11/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>>>> Ha, Ha. Rub it in. Actually, I've already turned >>>>>>>> them down twice for various reasons (although not >>>>>>>> for a Dept. Head) and the next time I apply it >>>>>>>> will be to take a job if offered. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> itOn 3/11/11, Dave wrote: >>>>>>>>> Sorry, it's just one of those super elite >>>>>>>>> schools, and they have a great package, and its >>>>>>>>> Hong Kong, and special ed as we've discussed is >>>>>>>>> a niche area.... It couldnt hurt to apply could >>>>>>>>> it??? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/11/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Arrgh. Don't remind me. I love my job >>>>>>>>>> (mostly) and we are enjoying Beijing but I >>>>>>>>>> hope those kind of jobs are open when my >>>>>>>>>> contract is up and we're ready to move on. >>>>>>>>>> ESF and HK would be a great next stop. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/10/11, Dave -> Thomas wrote: English >>>>>>>>>>> Foundation School in Hong Kong is looking >>>>>>>>>>> for a Special Education Department Head.

Mar 12, 2011

report post

Dave Yeah they would I can imagine, but the school in Paris knows I'm under contract until next year and they are still proceeding so I have to assume its not an issue for them (sometimes sisters don't get along, you know how girls can fight).

Here's my issue, in the great formula of deciding to accept a position there are many factors and not...See MoreYeah they would I can imagine, but the school in Paris knows I'm under contract until next year and they are still proceeding so I have to assume its not an issue for them (sometimes sisters don't get along, you know how girls can fight).

Here's my issue, in the great formula of deciding to accept a position there are many factors and not all those factors are equal some are "weighted" heavier then others. My concern is that I'm giving too much weight to the "It's Paris" category. So much so that it is eclipsing all the other factors. I don't want Paris to be the same issue I had with Rome, where I really was scraping by for many months (and even now I don't have a lot of savings). Basically, I'm having a hard time putting tangible value on something as abstract as "but I'm living in Paris". I know what your going to say "well whats that worth to you", the issue is that there are so many smaller abstract factors that contribute to this composite abstract factor, that individually even in pieces it's hard to put a value on them, how can I come up with an aggregate value. For instance being able to drink wine on the sidewalk at a paris cafe overlooking the tower, how much/what is that worth?

See the money/cost of living is easy, its a very concrete number. Sure different lifestyle choices can shift it up and done but its still a very easy concept to quantify. On the other hand I have all these abstract factors that I've ust dumped into "its Paris" pile that I cant begin to put a number too.

On 3/12/11, D. Thomas wrote: > I wouldn't break contract here as I really have a lot invested in the > success of our program. I also don't want to be even tempted, so that's > why we won't apply until we are in a position to commit. > > Wouldn't the sister school have a problem with you jumping to the other > sister (if you were to give into the temptation)? > > really want to be tempted. So that's why I don't really wantOn 3/12/11, > Dave wrote: >> Two salaries are better then one. Okay, so hypothetically would you >> break the contract if EFS offered BOTH of you positions? >> >> I'm asking because my contract in Italy is for another year but our >> sister school in Paris (France) has started to discuss a compensation >> package and I'm very tempted. >> >> On 3/12/11, D, Thomas wrote: >>> We're under contract through the 2011-2012 school year. We are >>> actually leaning towards staying another year after that since all >>> of our bills/moving etc will be paid off/caught up and we could >>> really build up a nice nest egg. And their package is good but not >>> great compared to our current gigs if only one of us is teaching >>> fulltime. So, who knows, not for the fall, but maybe we will check >>> it out for the following year. >>> >>> On 3/12/11, Dave wrote: >>>> Ok fair enough, so its still early for 2011-2012, why not apply >>>> with them now for next year? If they are the type of school, >>>> location, position you want to be at why not now? >>>> >>>> On 3/12/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>> I was actually leaning towards taking the bird in the >>>>> hand, but my wife had serious reservations and I really >>>>> couldn't address them all. It was also our first >>>>> experience with DoDDS and we did get one interview for >>>>> Yokota while we were still in Japan, so it was a bit >>>>> deceiving. And in the end, the two years in NY were good >>>>> for me professionally and led to our great positions here, >>>>> so it wasn't a disastrous decision. And hopefully not my >>>>> last chance with them. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3/12/11, Dave wrote: >>>>>> *Sigh* I understand, context within the time frame >>>>>> makes all the difference. >>>>>> Hindsight being 20/20 and all. You really were one of >>>>>> those "fingers crossed" DoDDS people??? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/11/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>>> Well, ironically, we were still in Japan the first >>>>>>> time I applied to ESF. I was offered a position but >>>>>>> my wife wasn't. We were nervous about supporting a >>>>>>> family on one salary and weren't certain about the >>>>>>> arrangements for my son. Also, in the ironic to >>>>>>> pathetic category, we were still hopeful DoDDS or >>>>>>> something else would come along (this was in February >>>>>>> of that year). It didn't and we ended up back in the >>>>>>> states for 2 years. This past time I had already >>>>>>> accepted my current position and was really excited >>>>>>> about the growth potential for the school and >>>>>>> position. ESF would be great (I think) but it's a >>>>>>> very established organization and the opportunities >>>>>>> for SPED students in HK are plentiful and well >>>>>>> established (compared to most of the rest of the >>>>>>> world). So although you would be making a difference >>>>>>> within that school and for those/students and their >>>>>>> families, it's here in Beijing that we're really >>>>>>> pioneering and trying to stretch the opportunties >>>>>>> available. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/11/11, Dave wrote: >>>>>>>> Well maybe this is a nod from the karma gods >>>>>>>> aligning your stars, its a sign thomas, a sign.... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Now im curious why did you decline a position with >>>>>>>> them? I mean I know the school your at isnt a chump >>>>>>>> school or anything but ESF is one of those schools >>>>>>>> you can end your career at you know? Its the >>>>>>>> equivilent of a DoDDS position in the international >>>>>>>> school community, and its even in a prime location >>>>>>>> for asia (its usually a toss up between hk and >>>>>>>> singapore for 1st place with Tokyo a solid second) >>>>>>>> and as the department head youd be in a position to >>>>>>>> shape the field in a region that sorely needs it??? >>>>>>>> Don't you want to make a difference, and i mean >>>>>>>> making a difference in the "big picture" >>>>>>>> type of way, champion the cause, fight the good >>>>>>>> fight??? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Im not saying I'd leave europe for HK, but for the >>>>>>>> right school/position I could be persuaded... If >>>>>>>> ESF offered me an IB cord. position or head in >>>>>>>> science and i could bring Amellia, and the >>>>>>>> compensation was right (and looks like it would be) >>>>>>>> I'd go... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/11/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>>>>> Ha, Ha. Rub it in. Actually, I've already turned >>>>>>>>> them down twice for various reasons (although not >>>>>>>>> for a Dept. Head) and the next time I apply it >>>>>>>>> will be to take a job if offered. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> itOn 3/11/11, Dave wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Sorry, it's just one of those super elite >>>>>>>>>> schools, and they have a great package, and its >>>>>>>>>> Hong Kong, and special ed as we've discussed is >>>>>>>>>> a niche area.... It couldnt hurt to apply could >>>>>>>>>> it??? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Arrgh. Don't remind me. I love my job >>>>>>>>>>> (mostly) and we are enjoying Beijing but I >>>>>>>>>>> hope those kind of jobs are open when my >>>>>>>>>>> contract is up and we're ready to move on. >>>>>>>>>>> ESF and HK would be a great next stop. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/10/11, Dave -> Thomas wrote: English >>>>>>>>>>>> Foundation School in Hong Kong is looking >>>>>>>>>>>> for a Special Education Department Head.

Mar 12, 2011

report post

D. Thomas Yeah, I can see all of that. A package that equates to only a decent lifestyle in Seoul/Beijing is not going to be as attractive as a package that allows you to live a decent lifestyle in Rome/Paris. Rome/Paris will automatically get bonus points in most people's mental accounting that have nothing to do with money, benefits etc. I'm sure we will b...See MoreYeah, I can see all of that. A package that equates to only a decent lifestyle in Seoul/Beijing is not going to be as attractive as a package that allows you to live a decent lifestyle in Rome/Paris. Rome/Paris will automatically get bonus points in most people's mental accounting that have nothing to do with money, benefits etc. I'm sure we will be going through similar debates down the road when we have a nice cushion built up and will probably be looking for a change from Asia.

Didn't you go through a similar type of mental accounting when you were deciding on Rome? Has the "it's Rome" factor run it's course, or is it that "it's Paris" has an even greater intrinsic appeal? Would it really be a hardship to stay in Rome another year, or are you worried that the opportunity may not be there next year?

Has On 3/12/11, Dave wrote: > Yeah they would I can imagine, but the school in Paris knows I'm under > contract until next year and they are still proceeding so I have to assume > its not an issue for them (sometimes sisters don't get along, you know how > girls can fight). > > Here's my issue, in the great formula of deciding to accept a position there > are many factors and not all those factors are equal some are "weighted" > heavier then others. My concern is that I'm giving too much weight to the > "It's Paris" category. So much so that it is eclipsing all the other > factors. I don't want Paris to be the same issue I had with Rome, where I > really was scraping by for many months (and even now I don't have a lot of > savings). Basically, I'm having a hard time putting tangible value on > something as abstract as "but I'm living in Paris". I know what your going > to say "well whats that worth to you", the issue is that there are so many > smaller abstract factors that contribute to this composite abstract factor, > that individually even in pieces it's hard to put a value on them, how can I > come up with an aggregate value. For instance being able to drink wine on > the sidewalk at a paris cafe overlooking the tower, how much/what is that > worth? > > See the money/cost of living is easy, its a very concrete number. Sure > different lifestyle choices can shift it up and done but its still a very > easy concept to quantify. On the other hand I have all these abstract > factors that I've ust dumped into "its Paris" pile that I cant begin to put > a number too. > > On 3/12/11, D. Thomas wrote: >> I wouldn't break contract here as I really have a lot invested in the >> success of our program. I also don't want to be even tempted, so that's >> why we won't apply until we are in a position to commit. >> >> Wouldn't the sister school have a problem with you jumping to the other >> sister (if you were to give into the temptation)? >> >> really want to be tempted. So that's why I don't really wantOn 3/12/11, >> Dave wrote: >>> Two salaries are better then one. Okay, so hypothetically would you >>> break the contract if EFS offered BOTH of you positions? >>> >>> I'm asking because my contract in Italy is for another year but our >>> sister school in Paris (France) has started to discuss a compensation >>> package and I'm very tempted. >>> >>> On 3/12/11, D, Thomas wrote: >>>> We're under contract through the 2011-2012 school year. We are >>>> actually leaning towards staying another year after that since all >>>> of our bills/moving etc will be paid off/caught up and we could >>>> really build up a nice nest egg. And their package is good but not >>>> great compared to our current gigs if only one of us is teaching >>>> fulltime. So, who knows, not for the fall, but maybe we will check >>>> it out for the following year. >>>> >>>> On 3/12/11, Dave wrote: >>>>> Ok fair enough, so its still early for 2011-2012, why not apply >>>>> with them now for next year? If they are the type of school, >>>>> location, position you want to be at why not now? >>>>> >>>>> On 3/12/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>> I was actually leaning towards taking the bird in the >>>>>> hand, but my wife had serious reservations and I really >>>>>> couldn't address them all. It was also our first >>>>>> experience with DoDDS and we did get one interview for >>>>>> Yokota while we were still in Japan, so it was a bit >>>>>> deceiving. And in the end, the two years in NY were good >>>>>> for me professionally and led to our great positions here, >>>>>> so it wasn't a disastrous decision. And hopefully not my >>>>>> last chance with them. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/12/11, Dave wrote: >>>>>>> *Sigh* I understand, context within the time frame >>>>>>> makes all the difference. >>>>>>> Hindsight being 20/20 and all. You really were one of >>>>>>> those "fingers crossed" DoDDS people??? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/11/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>>>> Well, ironically, we were still in Japan the first >>>>>>>> time I applied to ESF. I was offered a position but >>>>>>>> my wife wasn't. We were nervous about supporting a >>>>>>>> family on one salary and weren't certain about the >>>>>>>> arrangements for my son. Also, in the ironic to >>>>>>>> pathetic category, we were still hopeful DoDDS or >>>>>>>> something else would come along (this was in February >>>>>>>> of that year). It didn't and we ended up back in the >>>>>>>> states for 2 years. This past time I had already >>>>>>>> accepted my current position and was really excited >>>>>>>> about the growth potential for the school and >>>>>>>> position. ESF would be great (I think) but it's a >>>>>>>> very established organization and the opportunities >>>>>>>> for SPED students in HK are plentiful and well >>>>>>>> established (compared to most of the rest of the >>>>>>>> world). So although you would be making a difference >>>>>>>> within that school and for those/students and their >>>>>>>> families, it's here in Beijing that we're really >>>>>>>> pioneering and trying to stretch the opportunties >>>>>>>> available. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/11/11, Dave wrote: >>>>>>>>> Well maybe this is a nod from the karma gods >>>>>>>>> aligning your stars, its a sign thomas, a sign.... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Now im curious why did you decline a position with >>>>>>>>> them? I mean I know the school your at isnt a chump >>>>>>>>> school or anything but ESF is one of those schools >>>>>>>>> you can end your career at you know? Its the >>>>>>>>> equivilent of a DoDDS position in the international >>>>>>>>> school community, and its even in a prime location >>>>>>>>> for asia (its usually a toss up between hk and >>>>>>>>> singapore for 1st place with Tokyo a solid second) >>>>>>>>> and as the department head youd be in a position to >>>>>>>>> shape the field in a region that sorely needs it??? >>>>>>>>> Don't you want to make a difference, and i mean >>>>>>>>> making a difference in the "big picture" >>>>>>>>> type of way, champion the cause, fight the good >>>>>>>>> fight??? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Im not saying I'd leave europe for HK, but for the >>>>>>>>> right school/position I could be persuaded... If >>>>>>>>> ESF offered me an IB cord. position or head in >>>>>>>>> science and i could bring Amellia, and the >>>>>>>>> compensation was right (and looks like it would be) >>>>>>>>> I'd go... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/11/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Ha, Ha. Rub it in. Actually, I've already turned >>>>>>>>>> them down twice for various reasons (although not >>>>>>>>>> for a Dept. Head) and the next time I apply it >>>>>>>>>> will be to take a job if offered. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> itOn 3/11/11, Dave wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, it's just one of those super elite >>>>>>>>>>> schools, and they have a great package, and its >>>>>>>>>>> Hong Kong, and special ed as we've discussed is >>>>>>>>>>> a niche area.... It couldnt hurt to apply could >>>>>>>>>>> it??? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Arrgh. Don't remind me. I love my job >>>>>>>>>>>> (mostly) and we are enjoying Beijing but I >>>>>>>>>>>> hope those kind of jobs are open when my >>>>>>>>>>>> contract is up and we're ready to move on. >>>>>>>>>>>> ESF and HK would be a great next stop. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/10/11, Dave -> Thomas wrote: English >>>>>>>>>>>>> Foundation School in Hong Kong is looking >>>>>>>>>>>>> for a Special Education Department Head.

Mar 13, 2011

report post

Dave I did do the same thing with Rome, except I didnt really "weigh" the factors and there were so many "pluses" that went into the "its Rome" bucket that I just counted everything as one which in comparison left things like compensation greatly under valued.

The thing with Italy is that unless you get married, after 2 years your tax rate bec...See MoreI did do the same thing with Rome, except I didnt really "weigh" the factors and there were so many "pluses" that went into the "its Rome" bucket that I just counted everything as one which in comparison left things like compensation greatly under valued.

The thing with Italy is that unless you get married, after 2 years your tax rate becomes around 40% its impossible to live off the remaining salary. Positions in France in general dont come up often, and my concern is a suitable position wouldn't be available next year. Yes, Paris has a greater intrinsic appeal then staying in Rome, but thats because I've lived and taught in Rome now, and the old is never as exciting as the new.

On 3/13/11, D. Thomas wrote: > Yeah, I can see all of that. A package that equates to > only a decent lifestyle > in Seoul/Beijing is not going to be as attractive as a > package that allows you to live a decent lifestyle in > Rome/Paris. Rome/Paris will automatically get bonus > points in most people's mental accounting that have > nothing to do with money, benefits etc. I'm sure we > will be going through similar debates down the road > when we have a nice cushion built up and will probably > be looking for a change from Asia. > > Didn't you go through a similar type of mental > accounting when you were deciding on Rome? Has the > "it's Rome" factor run it's course, or is it > that "it's Paris" has an even greater > intrinsic appeal? Would it really be a hardship to stay > in Rome another year, or are you worried that the > opportunity may not be there next year? > > Has On 3/12/11, Dave wrote: >> Yeah they would I can imagine, but the school in >> Paris knows I'm under contract until next year and >> they are still proceeding so I have to assume its not >> an issue for them (sometimes sisters don't get along, >> you know how girls can fight). >> >> Here's my issue, in the great formula of deciding to >> accept a position there are many factors and not all >> those factors are equal some are "weighted" >> heavier then others. My concern is that I'm giving >> too much weight to the "It's Paris" >> category. So much so that it is eclipsing all the >> other factors. I don't want Paris to be the same >> issue I had with Rome, where I really was scraping by >> for many months (and even now I don't have a lot of >> savings). Basically, I'm having a hard time putting >> tangible value on something as abstract as "but >> I'm living in Paris". I know what your going to >> say "well whats that worth to you", the >> issue is that there are so many smaller abstract >> factors that contribute to this composite abstract >> factor, that individually even in pieces it's hard to >> put a value on them, how can I come up with an >> aggregate value. For instance being able to drink >> wine on the sidewalk at a paris cafe overlooking the >> tower, how much/what is that worth? >> >> See the money/cost of living is easy, its a very >> concrete number. Sure different lifestyle choices can >> shift it up and done but its still a very easy >> concept to quantify. On the other hand I have all >> these abstract factors that I've ust dumped into >> "its Paris" pile that I cant begin to put a >> number too. >> >> On 3/12/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>> I wouldn't break contract here as I really have a >>> lot invested in the success of our program. I also >>> don't want to be even tempted, so that's why we >>> won't apply until we are in a position to commit. >>> >>> Wouldn't the sister school have a problem with you >>> jumping to the other sister (if you were to give >>> into the temptation)? >>> >>> really want to be tempted. So that's why I don't >>> really wantOn 3/12/11, Dave wrote: >>>> Two salaries are better then one. Okay, so >>>> hypothetically would you break the contract if >>>> EFS offered BOTH of you positions? >>>> >>>> I'm asking because my contract in Italy is for >>>> another year but our sister school in Paris >>>> (France) has started to discuss a compensation >>>> package and I'm very tempted. >>>> >>>> On 3/12/11, D, Thomas wrote: >>>>> We're under contract through the 2011-2012 >>>>> school year. We are actually leaning towards >>>>> staying another year after that since all of >>>>> our bills/moving etc will be paid off/caught up >>>>> and we could really build up a nice nest egg. >>>>> And their package is good but not great >>>>> compared to our current gigs if only one of us >>>>> is teaching fulltime. So, who knows, not for >>>>> the fall, but maybe we will check it out for >>>>> the following year. >>>>> >>>>> On 3/12/11, Dave wrote: >>>>>> Ok fair enough, so its still early for >>>>>> 2011-2012, why not apply with them now for >>>>>> next year? If they are the type of school, >>>>>> location, position you want to be at why not >>>>>> now? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/12/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>>> I was actually leaning towards taking the >>>>>>> bird in the hand, but my wife had serious >>>>>>> reservations and I really couldn't address >>>>>>> them all. It was also our first experience >>>>>>> with DoDDS and we did get one interview for >>>>>>> Yokota while we were still in Japan, so it >>>>>>> was a bit deceiving. And in the end, the >>>>>>> two years in NY were good for me >>>>>>> professionally and led to our great >>>>>>> positions here, so it wasn't a disastrous >>>>>>> decision. And hopefully not my last chance >>>>>>> with them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/12/11, Dave wrote: >>>>>>>> *Sigh* I understand, context within the >>>>>>>> time frame makes all the difference. >>>>>>>> Hindsight being 20/20 and all. You really >>>>>>>> were one of those "fingers >>>>>>>> crossed" DoDDS people??? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/11/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>>>>> Well, ironically, we were still in >>>>>>>>> Japan the first time I applied to ESF. >>>>>>>>> I was offered a position but my wife >>>>>>>>> wasn't. We were nervous about >>>>>>>>> supporting a family on one salary and >>>>>>>>> weren't certain about the arrangements >>>>>>>>> for my son. Also, in the ironic to >>>>>>>>> pathetic category, we were still >>>>>>>>> hopeful DoDDS or something else would >>>>>>>>> come along (this was in February of >>>>>>>>> that year). It didn't and we ended up >>>>>>>>> back in the states for 2 years. This >>>>>>>>> past time I had already accepted my >>>>>>>>> current position and was really excited >>>>>>>>> about the growth potential for the >>>>>>>>> school and position. ESF would be great >>>>>>>>> (I think) but it's a very established >>>>>>>>> organization and the opportunities for >>>>>>>>> SPED students in HK are plentiful and >>>>>>>>> well established (compared to most of >>>>>>>>> the rest of the world). So although you >>>>>>>>> would be making a difference within >>>>>>>>> that school and for those/students and >>>>>>>>> their families, it's here in Beijing >>>>>>>>> that we're really pioneering and trying >>>>>>>>> to stretch the opportunties available. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/11/11, Dave wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Well maybe this is a nod from the >>>>>>>>>> karma gods aligning your stars, its a >>>>>>>>>> sign thomas, a sign.... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Now im curious why did you decline a >>>>>>>>>> position with them? I mean I know the >>>>>>>>>> school your at isnt a chump school or >>>>>>>>>> anything but ESF is one of those >>>>>>>>>> schools you can end your career at >>>>>>>>>> you know? Its the equivilent of a >>>>>>>>>> DoDDS position in the international >>>>>>>>>> school community, and its even in a >>>>>>>>>> prime location for asia (its usually >>>>>>>>>> a toss up between hk and singapore >>>>>>>>>> for 1st place with Tokyo a solid >>>>>>>>>> second) and as the department head >>>>>>>>>> youd be in a position to shape the >>>>>>>>>> field in a region that sorely needs >>>>>>>>>> it??? Don't you want to make a >>>>>>>>>> difference, and i mean making a >>>>>>>>>> difference in the "big >>>>>>>>>> picture" type of way, champion >>>>>>>>>> the cause, fight the good fight??? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Im not saying I'd leave europe for >>>>>>>>>> HK, but for the right school/position >>>>>>>>>> I could be persuaded... If ESF >>>>>>>>>> offered me an IB cord. position or >>>>>>>>>> head in science and i could bring >>>>>>>>>> Amellia, and the compensation was >>>>>>>>>> right (and looks like it would be) >>>>>>>>>> I'd go... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Ha, Ha. Rub it in. Actually, I've >>>>>>>>>>> already turned them down twice for >>>>>>>>>>> various reasons (although not for a >>>>>>>>>>> Dept. Head) and the next time I >>>>>>>>>>> apply it will be to take a job if >>>>>>>>>>> offered. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> itOn 3/11/11, Dave wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, it's just one of those >>>>>>>>>>>> super elite schools, and they >>>>>>>>>>>> have a great package, and its >>>>>>>>>>>> Hong Kong, and special ed as >>>>>>>>>>>> we've discussed is a niche >>>>>>>>>>>> area.... It couldnt hurt to apply >>>>>>>>>>>> could it??? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/11, D. Thomas wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Arrgh. Don't remind me. I love >>>>>>>>>>>>> my job (mostly) and we are >>>>>>>>>>>>> enjoying Beijing but I hope >>>>>>>>>>>>> those kind of jobs are open >>>>>>>>>>>>> when my contract is up and >>>>>>>>>>>>> we're ready to move on. ESF and >>>>>>>>>>>>> HK would be a great next stop. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/10/11, Dave -> Thomas wrote: English >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Foundation School in Hong >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kong is looking for a Special >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Education Department Head.

Mar 13, 2011

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