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NO points for 60% or below

by Sheila

Sep 7, 2009

We have used AR for years at our school in grades 4-8. Below that (grades pre-k-3) is is optional for the students to take tests. Sometimes a child scores below a 60 and gets no points at all. Our principal has listened to many parents gripe about that over the years. Can anyone tell me who that is handled at your school? The principal thinks they should still get some points or be able to retake the test, do a book report or something to get credit for reading a book. I say you can get 40% by watching a movie on some books, and just by probability with 4 choices, you should get a 25% just by guessing so should you get points for that? I'd like your thoughts on this please.

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Deb ms/IA Carolyn your posts force me to ask if you are a real teacher. This board does get people who post as teachers just to raise a stink. Your posts reflect a real issue of problem solving on your part. Your expertise is in writing and speech and not in reading. I to am HQT! I have my reading specialists and am certified preschool-12 for reading. I have...See More

Nov 1, 2009

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Carolyn I totally agree with you, Deb. I am deficient (but not incompetent) in teaching reading. My strengths are in writing. I prefer writing to reading, to tell you the truth. Teaching reading is difficult for me because I am not always sure where to go or what to do with the reading that is engaging and effective. I myself am not a rabid reader. I prefe...See MoreI totally agree with you, Deb. I am deficient (but not incompetent) in teaching reading. My strengths are in writing. I prefer writing to reading, to tell you the truth. Teaching reading is difficult for me because I am not always sure where to go or what to do with the reading that is engaging and effective. I myself am not a rabid reader. I prefer the output of writing to the input of reading. In fact, I take reading and try to turn it more into something writing related. I am more comfortable with writing. (I still do teach the elements of literature, and discuss in depth certain reading elements based on standards, I just probably don't do as thorough a job as I would do with writing)

I am working on the AR portion of it. I made an honest mistake, one that is not life threatening or permanent. I've taken accountability for that.

I get frustrated at times because there are people who seem to want to set me up for failure. I have very high personal expectations and standards, and hate to see a student doing poorly on something I have no control over.

I am looking for suggestions on how to improve my ability to teach reading. However, I also know a lot of what has occurred is outside my area of control.

No hard feelings, eh? None here, really.

I am curious-- you said budget cuts have forced you to stop AR. We have AR as an independent software program. Is it something schools have to pay for yearly, like United Streaming?

On 11/01/09, Deb ms/IA wrote: > Carolyn your posts force me to ask if you are a real teacher. This board > does get people who post as teachers just to raise a stink. Your posts > reflect a real issue of problem solving on your part. Your expertise is > in writing and speech and not in reading. I to am HQT! I have my > reading specialists and am certified preschool-12 for reading. I have a > bachelor of science with endorsements in early childhood, reading and can > teach K-8. I also have 23 years of experience to back up my knowledge. > !! of those years specializing in middle school reading. So I know my > students and I know there books! > > You really do need to keep up on literature for your students, monitor > their reading, ask questions through weekly status of the class > conferences with each student in your class. You really need to sit down > with the AR person and figure out what you need to do to get on board. > Make a list of questions and ask for an after school time sit down with > this person to go over this problem. If the school won't help seek out > AR training on your own. It really is beneficial. I would kill to have > AR back in my school but due to budget cuts it was one of theings to go. > > Deb ms/IA > > > > > > On 11/01/09, Carolyn wrote: > >> Finally, I suggest you do not make false judgment calls and question my >> teaching status. I am certified as an HQT teacher and have my state >> license as evidence. I am also a teacher consultant for the National >> Writing Project, have my Bachelors degree in Speech Communications, >> have worked as a writing tutor, on line proofreader and editorial >> assistant. Anything else you need to supply the evidence that I am >> qualified to teach this subject?

Nov 1, 2009

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Jake Sounds like your school staff needs to keep you in the loop if they want a successful Reading program. 9 times out of 10 that is the issue and yourself as a teacher are not given the tools you need nor the communication you need to be successful.

As for the watch a movie, take a test, I read somewhere that the AR company actually will re-...See MoreSounds like your school staff needs to keep you in the loop if they want a successful Reading program. 9 times out of 10 that is the issue and yourself as a teacher are not given the tools you need nor the communication you need to be successful.

As for the watch a movie, take a test, I read somewhere that the AR company actually will re-write quizzes once a movie comes out so that students whom watch the movie cannot pass the test.

On 10/31/09, The RIGHT Carolyn wrote: > I don't "HATE" it, I just don't see how it improves reading > comprehension or motivation. > > Ironically, I just received an email from a parent upset with me > over the AR report her child is getting. As a result of her > student not "understanding" he was supposed to do AR this past > quarter, he received a "not meeting goals" on his report card. > > Now, I READILY admit I did NOT tell him he was to be doing AR. I > assumed he already knew what it was. See, that's the problem I am > having. The person who is compiling the data and basically > running the system did not inform me that I was actually "in > charge" of the students reaching their goals. Hence, a new > student to the school who didn't know a darn thing about AR went > the entire quarter clueless about it (as was I) > > That's the reason why I do not like the way this system is set > up. We are reading a novel in class and the students are fully > comprehending this novel. THAT is more accurate of a > comprehension measurement to me, as a teacher, than a software > program with 22 questions in it. I don't understand how a student > who gets an A from me in regards to the standard "demonstrates > literal comprehension" in MY class, can fail that on an AR test. > Does this make sense? > > I also had a student who took NUMEROUS AR tests, and failed MOST > of them. So, she's not comprehending them either. Is it MY fault > she's not comprehending books she's read independently? No, it is > not. Is it my job to analyze the data and "fix" this problem? > Yes, it is. Is that fair? No, it is not. > > I have been given NO guidance, except for my co teacher who went > over the reports with me, on AR this past Friday. I have tried > numerous times to access the information, but cannot even sign on > to the system. Yet, I am being expected to monitor this and fix > issues on books I haven't read myself? THAT is my overall issue I > have with this. > > By the way, the parent told me that her child told her that a lot > of the kids in my school are going to see the movie versions of > the book, then taking AR tests for points. Since I consider this > cheating, I consider this evidence that AR is not an accurate way > to measure reading achievement. I can safely bet that many, many > students across the country are doing that very same thing -- > cheating by seeing the movie just for the sake of wracking up > their point totals. > > Just my thoughts. > > On 9/28/09, Deb ms/IA wrote: >> This was addressed to Carolyn it wasn't from Carolyn. >> Carolyn has torn apart AR since her first post. Her school >> is implementing AR incorrectly and Carolyn hates AR with a >> passion and states that quiet often on this board. Instead >> of making changes and using AR properly she just complains. >> Sorry for the confusion on your part. It was meant to >> address Carolyn and the fact I don't get all her whining. >> >> Deb ms/IA >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/26/09, I don't get you Carolyn wrote: >>>>> 60 percent on any work isn't passing work in some >>>>> grading scales. It doesn't matter if its a book >>>>> talk on a book or any type of project on a book 60 >>>>> percent isn't that great. >>>>> >>>>> Your ignorance/intolerance/anger with AR is >>>>> showing. AR is not all about numbers nor is it >>>>> about punishing kids. Please, you and your school >>>>> need training on how to properly run AR. When you >>>>> get that training, implement that training then >>>>> come back and issue your opinions on AR. Until then >>>>> stop your whining and complaining. Do something >>>>> about the problem! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/26/09, Carolyn wrote: >>>>>> I think focusing on points instead of reading >>>>>> enjoyment and comprehension is the wrong way to >>>>>> look at learning. That makes it all about a >>>>>> number to obtain, not the material from the book. >>>>>> Kids at my school get punished for not making >>>>>> their goals. This is not a motivating factor, >>>>>> it's a punitive fear of failure. >>>>>> >>>>>> I still don't get the whole point of AR. A book >>>>>> is better understood by talking about it, not by >>>>>> taking multiple choice tests. Ugh. >>> >> >>

Nov 2, 2009

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Gi GI You as a teacher did not know to tell a student they were supposed to be working on a school wide assignment? You think it is unfair for you to used data to determine what a student needs? That is what teaching is about. If a student is not comprehending books on the level that they are reading you are supposed to lower the level of books that they...See MoreYou as a teacher did not know to tell a student they were supposed to be working on a school wide assignment? You think it is unfair for you to used data to determine what a student needs? That is what teaching is about. If a student is not comprehending books on the level that they are reading you are supposed to lower the level of books that they are reading. If you think that the tests are based off of movies you should read the book yourself and take the test. Taking the word of someone else and not finding out for sure yourself is a really, really lazy way of teaching and besides the tests are made for the book and not the movie. Students get low scores when they do that. It sounds like you like being misinformed.

On 11/02/09, Jake wrote: > Sounds like your school staff needs to keep you in the loop if > they want a successful Reading program. 9 times out of 10 that is > the issue and yourself as a teacher are not given the tools you > need nor the communication you need to be successful. > > As for the watch a movie, take a test, I read somewhere that the > AR company actually will re-write quizzes once a movie comes out > so that students whom watch the movie cannot pass the test. > > > On 10/31/09, The RIGHT Carolyn wrote: >> I don't "HATE" it, I just don't see how it improves reading >> comprehension or motivation. >> >> Ironically, I just received an email from a parent upset with me >> over the AR report her child is getting. As a result of her >> student not "understanding" he was supposed to do AR this past >> quarter, he received a "not meeting goals" on his report card. >> >> Now, I READILY admit I did NOT tell him he was to be doing AR. I >> assumed he already knew what it was. See, that's the problem I am >> having. The person who is compiling the data and basically >> running the system did not inform me that I was actually "in >> charge" of the students reaching their goals. Hence, a new >> student to the school who didn't know a darn thing about AR went >> the entire quarter clueless about it (as was I) >> >> That's the reason why I do not like the way this system is set >> up. We are reading a novel in class and the students are fully >> comprehending this novel. THAT is more accurate of a >> comprehension measurement to me, as a teacher, than a software >> program with 22 questions in it. I don't understand how a student >> who gets an A from me in regards to the standard "demonstrates >> literal comprehension" in MY class, can fail that on an AR test. >> Does this make sense? >> >> I also had a student who took NUMEROUS AR tests, and failed MOST >> of them. So, she's not comprehending them either. Is it MY fault >> she's not comprehending books she's read independently? No, it is >> not. Is it my job to analyze the data and "fix" this problem? >> Yes, it is. Is that fair? No, it is not. >> >> I have been given NO guidance, except for my co teacher who went >> over the reports with me, on AR this past Friday. I have tried >> numerous times to access the information, but cannot even sign on >> to the system. Yet, I am being expected to monitor this and fix >> issues on books I haven't read myself? THAT is my overall issue I >> have with this. >> >> By the way, the parent told me that her child told her that a lot >> of the kids in my school are going to see the movie versions of >> the book, then taking AR tests for points. Since I consider this >> cheating, I consider this evidence that AR is not an accurate way >> to measure reading achievement. I can safely bet that many, many >> students across the country are doing that very same thing -- >> cheating by seeing the movie just for the sake of wracking up >> their point totals. >> >> Just my thoughts. >> >> On 9/28/09, Deb ms/IA wrote: >>> This was addressed to Carolyn it wasn't from Carolyn. >>> Carolyn has torn apart AR since her first post. Her school >>> is implementing AR incorrectly and Carolyn hates AR with a >>> passion and states that quiet often on this board. Instead >>> of making changes and using AR properly she just complains. >>> Sorry for the confusion on your part. It was meant to >>> address Carolyn and the fact I don't get all her whining. >>> >>> Deb ms/IA >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/26/09, I don't get you Carolyn wrote: >>>>>> 60 percent on any work isn't passing work in some >>>>>> grading scales. It doesn't matter if its a book >>>>>> talk on a book or any type of project on a book 60 >>>>>> percent isn't that great. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your ignorance/intolerance/anger with AR is >>>>>> showing. AR is not all about numbers nor is it >>>>>> about punishing kids. Please, you and your school >>>>>> need training on how to properly run AR. When you >>>>>> get that training, implement that training then >>>>>> come back and issue your opinions on AR. Until then >>>>>> stop your whining and complaining. Do something >>>>>> about the problem! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/26/09, Carolyn wrote: >>>>>>> I think focusing on points instead of reading >>>>>>> enjoyment and comprehension is the wrong way to >>>>>>> look at learning. That makes it all about a >>>>>>> number to obtain, not the material from the book. >>>>>>> Kids at my school get punished for not making >>>>>>> their goals. This is not a motivating factor, >>>>>>> it's a punitive fear of failure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I still don't get the whole point of AR. A book >>>>>>> is better understood by talking about it, not by >>>>>>> taking multiple choice tests. Ugh. >>>> >>> >>>

Sep 2, 2012

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Sheila Gi Gi, I hope this response was to Carolyn and not to me. I wrote my original question three years ago and Carolyn responded to my question. My issue has been resolved long ago. By the way, you'd be more helpful if you weren't calling other teachers lazy and gave some practical advice.

On 9/02/12, Gi GI wrote: > You as a teacher did no...See MoreGi Gi, I hope this response was to Carolyn and not to me. I wrote my original question three years ago and Carolyn responded to my question. My issue has been resolved long ago. By the way, you'd be more helpful if you weren't calling other teachers lazy and gave some practical advice.

On 9/02/12, Gi GI wrote: > You as a teacher did not know to tell a student they were supposed to > be working on a school wide assignment? You think it is unfair for > you to used data to determine what a student needs? That is what > teaching is about. If a student is not comprehending books on the > level that they are reading you are supposed to lower the level of > books that they are reading. If you think that the tests are based > off of movies you should read the book yourself and take the test. > Taking the word of someone else and not finding out for sure yourself > is a really, really lazy way of teaching and besides the tests are > made for the book and not the movie. Students get low scores when > they do that. It sounds like you like being misinformed. > > > On 11/02/09, Jake wrote: >> Sounds like your school staff needs to keep you in the loop if >> they want a successful Reading program. 9 times out of 10 that is >> the issue and yourself as a teacher are not given the tools you >> need nor the communication you need to be successful. >> >> As for the watch a movie, take a test, I read somewhere that the >> AR company actually will re-write quizzes once a movie comes out >> so that students whom watch the movie cannot pass the test. >> >> >> On 10/31/09, The RIGHT Carolyn wrote: >>> I don't "HATE" it, I just don't see how it improves reading >>> comprehension or motivation. >>> >>> Ironically, I just received an email from a parent upset with me >>> over the AR report her child is getting. As a result of her >>> student not "understanding" he was supposed to do AR this past >>> quarter, he received a "not meeting goals" on his report card. >>> >>> Now, I READILY admit I did NOT tell him he was to be doing AR. I >>> assumed he already knew what it was. See, that's the problem I am >>> having. The person who is compiling the data and basically >>> running the system did not inform me that I was actually "in >>> charge" of the students reaching their goals. Hence, a new >>> student to the school who didn't know a darn thing about AR went >>> the entire quarter clueless about it (as was I) >>> >>> That's the reason why I do not like the way this system is set >>> up. We are reading a novel in class and the students are fully >>> comprehending this novel. THAT is more accurate of a >>> comprehension measurement to me, as a teacher, than a software >>> program with 22 questions in it. I don't understand how a student >>> who gets an A from me in regards to the standard "demonstrates >>> literal comprehension" in MY class, can fail that on an AR test. >>> Does this make sense? >>> >>> I also had a student who took NUMEROUS AR tests, and failed MOST >>> of them. So, she's not comprehending them either. Is it MY fault >>> she's not comprehending books she's read independently? No, it is >>> not. Is it my job to analyze the data and "fix" this problem? >>> Yes, it is. Is that fair? No, it is not. >>> >>> I have been given NO guidance, except for my co teacher who went >>> over the reports with me, on AR this past Friday. I have tried >>> numerous times to access the information, but cannot even sign on >>> to the system. Yet, I am being expected to monitor this and fix >>> issues on books I haven't read myself? THAT is my overall issue I >>> have with this. >>> >>> By the way, the parent told me that her child told her that a lot >>> of the kids in my school are going to see the movie versions of >>> the book, then taking AR tests for points. Since I consider this >>> cheating, I consider this evidence that AR is not an accurate way >>> to measure reading achievement. I can safely bet that many, many >>> students across the country are doing that very same thing -- >>> cheating by seeing the movie just for the sake of wracking up >>> their point totals. >>> >>> Just my thoughts. >>> >>> On 9/28/09, Deb ms/IA wrote: >>>> This was addressed to Carolyn it wasn't from Carolyn. >>>> Carolyn has torn apart AR since her first post. Her school >>>> is implementing AR incorrectly and Carolyn hates AR with a >>>> passion and states that quiet often on this board. Instead >>>> of making changes and using AR properly she just complains. >>>> Sorry for the confusion on your part. It was meant to >>>> address Carolyn and the fact I don't get all her whining. >>>> >>>> Deb ms/IA >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/26/09, I don't get you Carolyn wrote: >>>>>>> 60 percent on any work isn't passing work in some >>>>>>> grading scales. It doesn't matter if its a book >>>>>>> talk on a book or any type of project on a book 60 >>>>>>> percent isn't that great. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your ignorance/intolerance/anger with AR is >>>>>>> showing. AR is not all about numbers nor is it >>>>>>> about punishing kids. Please, you and your school >>>>>>> need training on how to properly run AR. When you >>>>>>> get that training, implement that training then >>>>>>> come back and issue your opinions on AR. Until then >>>>>>> stop your whining and complaining. Do something >>>>>>> about the problem! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/26/09, Carolyn wrote: >>>>>>>> I think focusing on points instead of reading >>>>>>>> enjoyment and comprehension is the wrong way to >>>>>>>> look at learning. That makes it all about a >>>>>>>> number to obtain, not the material from the book. >>>>>>>> Kids at my school get punished for not making >>>>>>>> their goals. This is not a motivating factor, >>>>>>>> it's a punitive fear of failure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I still don't get the whole point of AR. A book >>>>>>>> is better understood by talking about it, not by >>>>>>>> taking multiple choice tests. Ugh. >>>>> >>>> >>>>

Sep 3, 2012

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