Let's talk about whips . . .

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Let's talk about whips . . .

by innocent bystander

Jan 14, 2010

For the moment, let's completely forget anything about how the AR program is run or how it's supposed to be run.

Let's address the "whip" issue.

Take a typical month at work. How many things do you, during the course of that month, have to do that you really don't want to do? And of those things that you hate doing, which of those would you NOT do if you didn't have some kind of "whip" making you do them?

Sometimes you've just got to suck it up and do it . . . like it or not.

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to Fireman Dad Again, I repeat, you are not here for help or advice because you have come back with some defense for every single point made. You are here to get someone to agree with you and you found someone. You are not taking any advice offered though even from that person. Have you thought yet about not having your son take a .5 test every single day as was ...See More

Jan 14, 2010

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Fireman Dad On 1/14/10, to Fireman Dad wrote: > Again, I repeat, you are not here for help or advice > because you have come > back with some defense for every single point made.

Just the ones that keep repeating the same ole song and dance of "well, if they are reading now, thats our only concern, no matter of the effects that it may cause l...See MoreOn 1/14/10, to Fireman Dad wrote: > Again, I repeat, you are not here for help or advice > because you have come > back with some defense for every single point made.

Just the ones that keep repeating the same ole song and dance of "well, if they are reading now, thats our only concern, no matter of the effects that it may cause later in life, such has hating reading because of the illogical motivation for the short term."

You > are here to get someone to agree with you and you found > someone. You are not taking any advice offered though > even from that person. Have you thought yet about not > having your son take a .5 test every single day as was > suggested by someone?

Yes I have gotten him some higher point books. Here is somewhat of a catch 22 in the system that I see. It may take him 4 times as long to read the 2.0 book over a .5, so the 4 days later when he takes his fact recall quiz, it stands to reason his fact recall on the first days reading may not be as sharp, thus lowering his GRADE which he gets which in turn cause him to have to read more books to make up the balance of the points not earned.

That is not what he needs to help > his love of reading when he is pressured every single > day to take and pass a test. Why not enjoy a longer > book for a week and only take a test once a week? Also > to the teacher who told you to see if your son could be > exempt, I don't know what kind of outdated AR program > you have at your school, but ours is all on-line so > there is rarely a book without an AR test available.

I dont understand the correlation between the teacher who suggested the exemption and the AR program. Could you explain that a little clearer please?

> Even new books have a test out within a week or less > and kids have endless possibilities of books to read. > Maybe your school needs to invest some money into their > AR program.

Possibly, or try using it as recommended.

On 1/14/10, Fireman Dad wrote: >> On 1/14/10, innocent bystander wrote: >>> Even in our properly-run, graded program there are >>> students who are EXEMPT from AR. There are students >>> who read books that aren't AR books. >>> >>> The program has flexibility. >>> >>> However, "you're making my chld hate to >>> read" doesn't hold water as a way to get out >>> of it. >> >> As long as the kids pass the standardized tests, >> thats the main goal here so the schools can still get >> the funding. >> >> >>> >>> And, one more thing, the program is NOT supposed to >>> make kids like reading. >> >> It doing its job then. >> >> It's supposed to make them better at it. And nobody can >>> deny that good independent reading ability is a >>> necessary skill. >>>

Jan 15, 2010

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fyi Some schools have to pay for AR tests one book at a time so they are very limited to the tests their students can take. Our school subscribes to a on-line site where every book written practically has an AR test so there is no problem finding a book to take a test on.

On 1/15/10, Fireman Dad wrote: > On 1/14/10, to Fireman Dad wrote: &g...See MoreSome schools have to pay for AR tests one book at a time so they are very limited to the tests their students can take. Our school subscribes to a on-line site where every book written practically has an AR test so there is no problem finding a book to take a test on.

On 1/15/10, Fireman Dad wrote: > On 1/14/10, to Fireman Dad wrote: >> Again, I repeat, you are not here for help or advice >> because you have come >> back with some defense for every single point made. > > Just the ones that keep repeating the same ole song and > dance of "well, if they are reading now, thats our only > concern, no matter of the effects that it may cause later > in life, such has hating reading because of the illogical > motivation for the short term." > > You >> are here to get someone to agree with you and you found >> someone. You are not taking any advice offered though >> even from that person. Have you thought yet about not >> having your son take a .5 test every single day as was >> suggested by someone? > > Yes I have gotten him some higher point books. Here is > somewhat of a catch 22 in the system that I see. It may > take him 4 times as long to read the 2.0 book over a .5, > so the 4 days later when he takes his fact recall quiz, it > stands to reason his fact recall on the first days reading > may not be as sharp, thus lowering his GRADE which he gets > which in turn cause him to have to read more books to make > up the balance of the points not earned. > > That is not what he needs to help >> his love of reading when he is pressured every single >> day to take and pass a test. Why not enjoy a longer >> book for a week and only take a test once a week? Also >> to the teacher who told you to see if your son could be >> exempt, I don't know what kind of outdated AR program >> you have at your school, but ours is all on-line so >> there is rarely a book without an AR test available. > > I dont understand the correlation between the teacher who > suggested the exemption and the AR program. Could you > explain that a little clearer please? > > >> Even new books have a test out within a week or less >> and kids have endless possibilities of books to read. >> Maybe your school needs to invest some money into their >> AR program. > > > Possibly, or try using it as recommended. > > > On 1/14/10, Fireman Dad wrote: >>> On 1/14/10, innocent bystander wrote: >>>> Even in our properly-run, graded program there are >>>> students who are EXEMPT from AR. There are students >>>> who read books that aren't AR books. >>>> >>>> The program has flexibility. >>>> >>>> However, "you're making my chld hate to >>>> read" doesn't hold water as a way to get out >>>> of it. >>> >>> As long as the kids pass the standardized tests, >>> thats the main goal here so the schools can still get >>> the funding. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> And, one more thing, the program is NOT supposed to >>>> make kids like reading. >>> >>> It doing its job then. >>> >>> It's supposed to make them better at it. And nobody can >>>> deny that good independent reading ability is a >>>> necessary skill. >>>>

Jan 15, 2010

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fireman's daughter- I was the one who suggested the "exemption" from AR simply because I know that in my school, we do not have unlimited access to tests. We pay (OUT OF THE TEACHER"S POCKET!!) for every test. They are $3.95 per test, must be sent to the school on a disc or via the internet, and there is a $50.00 minimum order. My new principal (two years now) has not...See MoreI was the one who suggested the "exemption" from AR simply because I know that in my school, we do not have unlimited access to tests. We pay (OUT OF THE TEACHER"S POCKET!!) for every test. They are $3.95 per test, must be sent to the school on a disc or via the internet, and there is a $50.00 minimum order. My new principal (two years now) has not invested a dime into the AR program or into new books. Each year, our school library loses approximately 300 books, and has another 100 or so damaged so badly that they are not able to be read. Another teacher and I bought $65.00 in tests EACH last May. Our school library does NOT have the books- but the kids can get them from the public library- titles such as Diary of a Wimpy Kid, the entire Twilight Series, the House of Night series, and some Scobre press books to name a few. We bought the tests for the upper grades because their titles were SO outdated- (Hitty, Johnny Tremain, Pippi Longstocking) The upper level book selection is EXTREMELY limited. I know that my girls were reading Twilight, so I bought all the tests for them. I also heard that AR tests change as soon as a movie comes out, so that kids can't simply watch the movie. In my school, the tests do not change. Once we order them, they get installed, and they never update. Yes, we need to spend more money on updating our library books and AR tests. Will it happen? Probably NOT in my lifetime, and I am NOT about to tackle the double-edged sword. Our principal is the type who jumps to write-up an individual for THINKING that something could be improved at our school. We are not allowed to question anything. Ever. Otherwise, "you're on the list..." and that's not such a pleasant place to be. So, I'd understand if a parent had a problem with AR .Our books, in particular, are old, outdated, and uninteresting. I totally agree that parents are the best judge of their child's personality, and if Fireman Dad notices that his son is losing the "spark" to read, and AR may be the culprit, I say, let him keep reading, but let him choose the material- AR or not. Who are we to tell him that he is wrong for noticing a change in HIS child? This is a concerned parent, and I think that we as teachers tend to dismiss parents as "problems" without REALLY listening. It should not have any impact on honor roll, either. AR is not supposed to be graded, or have an impact on a child's reading GRADE. It is to make them practice reading so their grade goes up as a RESULT of reading. I know you're in a tough spot, Fireman Dad. I hope it can be worked out, and I hope your son continues to read for pleasure throughout his life. On 1/15/10, fyi wrote: > Some schools have to pay for AR tests one book at a time so > they are very limited to the tests their students can take. > Our school subscribes to a on-line site where every book > written practically has an AR test so there is no problem > finding a book to take a test on. > > On 1/15/10, Fireman Dad wrote: >> On 1/14/10, to Fireman Dad wrote: >>> Again, I repeat, you are not here for help or advice >>> because you have come >>> back with some defense for every single point made. >> >> Just the ones that keep repeating the same ole song and >> dance of "well, if they are reading now, thats our only >> concern, no matter of the effects that it may cause later >> in life, such has hating reading because of the illogical >> motivation for the short term." >> >> You >>> are here to get someone to agree with you and you found >>> someone. You are not taking any advice offered though >>> even from that person. Have you thought yet about not >>> having your son take a .5 test every single day as was >>> suggested by someone? >> >> Yes I have gotten him some higher point books. Here is >> somewhat of a catch 22 in the system that I see. It may >> take him 4 times as long to read the 2.0 book over a .5, >> so the 4 days later when he takes his fact recall quiz, it >> stands to reason his fact recall on the first days reading >> may not be as sharp, thus lowering his GRADE which he gets >> which in turn cause him to have to read more books to make >> up the balance of the points not earned. >> >> That is not what he needs to help >>> his love of reading when he is pressured every single >>> day to take and pass a test. Why not enjoy a longer >>> book for a week and only take a test once a week? Also >>> to the teacher who told you to see if your son could be >>> exempt, I don't know what kind of outdated AR program >>> you have at your school, but ours is all on-line so >>> there is rarely a book without an AR test available. >> >> I dont understand the correlation between the teacher who >> suggested the exemption and the AR program. Could you >> explain that a little clearer please? >> >> >>> Even new books have a test out within a week or less >>> and kids have endless possibilities of books to read. >>> Maybe your school needs to invest some money into their >>> AR program. >> >> >> Possibly, or try using it as recommended. >> >> >> On 1/14/10, Fireman Dad wrote: >>>> On 1/14/10, innocent bystander wrote: >>>>> Even in our properly-run, graded program there are >>>>> students who are EXEMPT from AR. There are students >>>>> who read books that aren't AR books. >>>>> >>>>> The program has flexibility. >>>>> >>>>> However, "you're making my chld hate to >>>>> read" doesn't hold water as a way to get out >>>>> of it. >>>> >>>> As long as the kids pass the standardized tests, >>>> thats the main goal here so the schools can still get >>>> the funding. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> And, one more thing, the program is NOT supposed to >>>>> make kids like reading. >>>> >>>> It doing its job then. >>>> >>>> It's supposed to make them better at it. And nobody can >>>>> deny that good independent reading ability is a >>>>> necessary skill. >>>>>

Jan 15, 2010

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feel for you If I had to deal with this at my school, I'd not like using AR either. You find it much better if tests were unlimited, current, and you had books for the kids to read. No wonder you don't like the program. I wouldn't either. Your school has no business requiring them to do AR if they don't have the resources to make it feasible for kids to take te...See MoreIf I had to deal with this at my school, I'd not like using AR either. You find it much better if tests were unlimited, current, and you had books for the kids to read. No wonder you don't like the program. I wouldn't either. Your school has no business requiring them to do AR if they don't have the resources to make it feasible for kids to take tests on current books they love like the Wimpy Kids and Twilight. I guess I love AR because we are unlimited and have a great library and so my kids do love to read and have no problems meeting AR goals. Maybe Fireman's Dad is stuck at a school like yours.

On 1/15/10, fireman's daughter- wrote: > I was the one who suggested the "exemption" from AR simply because > I know that in my school, we do not have unlimited access to > tests. We pay (OUT OF THE TEACHER"S POCKET!!) for every test. They > are $3.95 per test, must be sent to the school on a disc or via > the internet, and there is a $50.00 minimum order. My new principal > (two years now) has not invested a dime into the AR program or > into new books. Each year, our school library loses approximately > 300 books, and has another 100 or so damaged so badly that they > are not able to be read. Another teacher and I bought $65.00 in > tests EACH last May. Our school library does NOT have the books- > but the kids can get them from the public library- titles such as > Diary of a Wimpy Kid, the entire Twilight Series, the House of > Night series, and some Scobre press books to name a few. We bought > the tests for the upper grades because their titles were SO > outdated- (Hitty, Johnny Tremain, Pippi Longstocking) The upper > level book selection is EXTREMELY limited. I know that my girls > were reading Twilight, so I bought all the tests for them. I also > heard that AR tests change as soon as a movie comes out, so that > kids can't simply watch the movie. In my school, the tests do not > change. Once we order them, they get installed, and they never > update. Yes, we need to spend more money on updating our library > books and AR tests. Will it happen? Probably NOT in my lifetime, > and I am NOT about to tackle the double-edged sword. Our principal > is the type who jumps to write-up an individual for THINKING that > something could be improved at our school. We are not allowed to > question anything. Ever. Otherwise, "you're on the list..." and > that's not such a pleasant place to be. So, I'd understand if a > parent had a problem with AR .Our books, in particular, are old, > outdated, and uninteresting. I totally agree that parents are the > best judge of their child's personality, and if Fireman Dad > notices that his son is losing the "spark" to read, and AR may be > the culprit, I say, let him keep reading, but let him choose the > material- AR or not. Who are we to tell him that he is wrong for > noticing a change in HIS child? This is a concerned parent, and I > think that we as teachers tend to dismiss parents as "problems" > without REALLY listening. It should not have any impact on honor > roll, either. AR is not supposed to be graded, or have an impact > on a child's reading GRADE. It is to make them practice reading so > their grade goes up as a RESULT of reading. I know you're in a > tough spot, Fireman Dad. I hope it can be worked out, and I hope > your son continues to read for pleasure throughout his life. On > 1/15/10, fyi wrote: >> Some schools have to pay for AR tests one book at a time so >> they are very limited to the tests their students can take. >> Our school subscribes to a on-line site where every book >> written practically has an AR test so there is no problem >> finding a book to take a test on. >> >> On 1/15/10, Fireman Dad wrote: >>> On 1/14/10, to Fireman Dad wrote: >>>> Again, I repeat, you are not here for help or advice >>>> because you have come >>>> back with some defense for every single point made. >>> >>> Just the ones that keep repeating the same ole song and >>> dance of "well, if they are reading now, thats our only >>> concern, no matter of the effects that it may cause later >>> in life, such has hating reading because of the illogical >>> motivation for the short term." >>> >>> You >>>> are here to get someone to agree with you and you found >>>> someone. You are not taking any advice offered though >>>> even from that person. Have you thought yet about not >>>> having your son take a .5 test every single day as was >>>> suggested by someone? >>> >>> Yes I have gotten him some higher point books. Here is >>> somewhat of a catch 22 in the system that I see. It may >>> take him 4 times as long to read the 2.0 book over a .5, >>> so the 4 days later when he takes his fact recall quiz, it >>> stands to reason his fact recall on the first days reading >>> may not be as sharp, thus lowering his GRADE which he gets >>> which in turn cause him to have to read more books to make >>> up the balance of the points not earned. >>> >>> That is not what he needs to help >>>> his love of reading when he is pressured every single >>>> day to take and pass a test. Why not enjoy a longer >>>> book for a week and only take a test once a week? Also >>>> to the teacher who told you to see if your son could be >>>> exempt, I don't know what kind of outdated AR program >>>> you have at your school, but ours is all on-line so >>>> there is rarely a book without an AR test available. >>> >>> I dont understand the correlation between the teacher who >>> suggested the exemption and the AR program. Could you >>> explain that a little clearer please? >>> >>> >>>> Even new books have a test out within a week or less >>>> and kids have endless possibilities of books to read. >>>> Maybe your school needs to invest some money into their >>>> AR program. >>> >>> >>> Possibly, or try using it as recommended. >>> >>> >>> On 1/14/10, Fireman Dad wrote: >>>>> On 1/14/10, innocent bystander wrote: >>>>>> Even in our properly-run, graded program there are >>>>>> students who are EXEMPT from AR. There are students >>>>>> who read books that aren't AR books. >>>>>> >>>>>> The program has flexibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, "you're making my chld hate to >>>>>> read" doesn't hold water as a way to get out >>>>>> of it. >>>>> >>>>> As long as the kids pass the standardized tests, >>>>> thats the main goal here so the schools can still get >>>>> the funding. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> And, one more thing, the program is NOT supposed to >>>>>> make kids like reading. >>>>> >>>>> It doing its job then. >>>>> >>>>> It's supposed to make them better at it. And nobody can >>>>>> deny that good independent reading ability is a >>>>>> necessary skill. >>>>>> >

Jan 15, 2010

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