Great class....except for a couple kids

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Classroom Discipline Chatboard

Great class....except for a couple kids

by 3rd grade teacher

Sep 24, 2010

I must preface this by saying I have a FANTASTIC group of kids this year. I work in a low income/high poverty minority neighborhood. Title 1 school, in a district with a LOT of major funding issues. We all have 30 + kids in our classrooms, and our budgets have been cut so badly, we don't even have paper to run copies on for all of our students. So I knew this was going to be a tough year, and I honestly can say I'm thrilled with the group I have. I use Marvin Marshall's "Discipline Without Stress" system in my classroom, and many - almost all - of my kids have bought in totally with trying to be "Level D" students all the time. They are delightful. But I do have 4 students who are NOT doing what they need to do. I am getting frustrated with them - but more importantly, my students are frustrated with them (and I love that - instead of joining in, they sit there silently and wait for the offenders to stop, often telling them "STOP IT" and giving them nasty looks or hand signals. - I lov...See MoreI must preface this by saying I have a FANTASTIC group of kids this year. I work in a low income/high poverty minority neighborhood. Title 1 school, in a district with a LOT of major funding issues. We all have 30 + kids in our classrooms, and our budgets have been cut so badly, we don't even have paper to run copies on for all of our students. So I knew this was going to be a tough year, and I honestly can say I'm thrilled with the group I have. I use Marvin Marshall's "Discipline Without Stress" system in my classroom, and many - almost all - of my kids have bought in totally with trying to be "Level D" students all the time. They are delightful. But I do have 4 students who are NOT doing what they need to do. I am getting frustrated with them - but more importantly, my students are frustrated with them (and I love that - instead of joining in, they sit there silently and wait for the offenders to stop, often telling them "STOP IT" and giving them nasty looks or hand signals. - I love it!)

Student A - a child with a lot of emotional needs. I have this kid mostly figured out, and spoke with her about trying to get positive attention rather than negative attention. She seems to be doing it, so far, so I have hope there. She is, for the most part, following the system, but just has some issue with other kids. Certainly not a major concern.

Student B - this kid can't sit still. He is all over the place no matter how much I steer him towards his seat (I use a lot of proximity management and move constantly - it feels, though, like I am chasing him.) If ever I have seen a kid who needs meds for ADHD, this is one of them. Reads at a 1st grade level, failed his first math test of the year, and is called out by EVERY teacher who works with him for the same things (unsafe behavior, disruptive behavior, out of control (active) behavior.) He's a fairly nice kid, just has NO impulse control. I have phoned, emailed and written home with no response. Without meds, I don't see a lot of hope, because, unfortunately, he really can't control himself.

Student C - here's the one I'm asking about. Defiant little snot. He loves to be the center of his peers attention, and could care less if he is in trouble or not. He makes loud noises, shouts out in class (usually not about anything we are learning about -- just random stuff to get a rise out of kids - fortunately, most of my kids ignore him), he is out of his seat, dawdles over everything, and will outright defy me if given the chance. I am on him like "flies on poop" ;) so he hasn't had much chance to be truly defiant, and I will stand there giving him 'the look' and wait for him all day, so he does what he is told, but it takes a lot of energy to get him to do it. If anyone has ideas for a behavior plan I can implement with this kid, I would SO appreciate it. His parents get very angry when they are told about this kid's behavior - on the one hand, mom admits he is "a handful," but on the other hand, she has no interest in hearing about it from his teacher, and dad is just crazy. Seriously. I've been informed that if you say anything to the parents about this kid, dad will call and call you every swear word in the book and threaten your life, too. Fun.

Studend D - alone, this kid is not so bad. Unfortunately, he is the hanger-on to student C. He has given student C a lot of power, because he has an audience. The rest of my kids don't play into it, but this one does. He can be defiant too, but it is worse when we is near this other kid. They gravitate to one another, and I am constantly having to move them away from each other (even though I already have them seated in opposite corners of the room). They will shout out across the room at each other, one will make an inappropriate comment and the other will laugh. Alone, this kid is really nice, but with the other one, he is a serious issue. How do I get him to my side, make it 'worth his while' to be on my side and turn against the trouble maker. It would take away the trouble maker's power, if he lost his biggest fan.Calls to parents don't work - they aren't interested. Any suggestions?

Thanks, all. I hope your school years are starting off well!

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Cityteacher First of all- Glad to hear you've got a good bunch this year! The few minor irritations "the IMPORTANT ones" as we call them in my school can certainly be handled since it's the minority, not the majority of the class....:) For ADHD GIRL: Since my son has ADHD Type HI, (hyperactivity/impulsivity) and as a teacher, I think that NO TEACHER should hav...See MoreFirst of all- Glad to hear you've got a good bunch this year! The few minor irritations "the IMPORTANT ones" as we call them in my school can certainly be handled since it's the minority, not the majority of the class....:) For ADHD GIRL: Since my son has ADHD Type HI, (hyperactivity/impulsivity) and as a teacher, I think that NO TEACHER should have to put-up with the disruptive, attention getting, impulsive, unsafe nonsense that an UNmedicated kid can present in the classroom.... I usually meet with mom in a "I know what you're going through" approach. tell them that their kid is a good kid, but can't control their behavior, by NO FAULT of their own. Say that there COULD be a medical reason that is at issue, and in order to help their child feel successful (what parent doesn't want that) I suggest a trip to the doctor to discuss "what can be done" to help the child get the most from their educational experience. Then, specifically describe the observable behaviors, so the parent can explain it to the doc. Unfortunately, it's about all we can do. POINT them to the doctor to get the conversation going. As for the two boys: Any chance your administration will move one from your room? They sound like there's trouble brewing. how about assigning a "buddy" to Student D, so he has someone else to focus on. Without an audience, student C will fizzle a bit. Maybe student C could have jobs assigned to do in the room to keep him busy so he doesn't have time to put on a show? Pencil sharpening, paper stapling, -make something up like "sorting paper clips by size" or arranging markers or crayons by color, putting papers in alphabetical order, stamping envelopes. busy stuff. Spend a few recesses with him to get him to "buy in" to the class. (pointing out to him that his behavior is NOT entertaining his classmates, but rather becoming a nuisance) If and when you call home, if dad threatens to kill you....you need to press charges. Seriously, parents don't get to intimidate teachers who are doing their job. Call the police. If he truly is crazy, he needs help anyway. maybe little snot nosed brat will get the message, too. Apples don't fall far, do they? Good luck with everything.... On 9/24/10, 3rd grade teacher wrote: > I must preface this by saying I have a FANTASTIC group of > kids this year. I work in a low income/high poverty > minority neighborhood. Title 1 school, in a district with > a LOT of major funding issues. We all have 30 + kids in > our classrooms, and our budgets have been cut so badly, we > don't even have paper to run copies on for all of our > students. So I knew this was going to be a tough year, and > I honestly can say I'm thrilled with the group I have. I > use Marvin Marshall's "Discipline Without Stress" system in > my classroom, and many - almost all - of my kids have > bought in totally with trying to be "Level D" students all > the time. They are delightful. But I do have 4 students > who are NOT doing what they need to do. I am getting > frustrated with them - but more importantly, my students > are frustrated with them (and I love that - instead of > joining in, they sit there silently and wait for the > offenders to stop, often telling them "STOP IT" and giving > them nasty looks or hand signals. - I love it!) > > Student A - a child with a lot of emotional needs. I have > this kid mostly figured out, and spoke with her about > trying to get positive attention rather than negative > attention. She seems to be doing it, so far, so I have > hope there. She is, for the most part, following the > system, but just has some issue with other kids. Certainly > not a major concern. > > Student B - this kid can't sit still. He is all over the > place no matter how much I steer him towards his seat (I > use a lot of proximity management and move constantly - it > feels, though, like I am chasing him.) If ever I have seen > a kid who needs meds for ADHD, this is one of them. Reads > at a 1st grade level, failed his first math test of the > year, and is called out by EVERY teacher who works with him > for the same things (unsafe behavior, disruptive behavior, > out of control (active) behavior.) He's a fairly nice kid, > just has NO impulse control. I have phoned, emailed and > written home with no response. Without meds, I don't see a > lot of hope, because, unfortunately, he really can't > control himself. > > Student C - here's the one I'm asking about. Defiant > little snot. He loves to be the center of his peers > attention, and could care less if he is in trouble or not. > He makes loud noises, shouts out in class (usually not > about anything we are learning about -- just random stuff > to get a rise out of kids - fortunately, most of my kids > ignore him), he is out of his seat, dawdles over > everything, and will outright defy me if given the chance. > I am on him like "flies on poop" ;) so he hasn't had much > chance to be truly defiant, and I will stand there giving > him 'the look' and wait for him all day, so he does what he > is told, but it takes a lot of energy to get him to do it. > If anyone has ideas for a behavior plan I can implement > with this kid, I would SO appreciate it. His parents get > very angry when they are told about this kid's behavior - > on the one hand, mom admits he is "a handful," but on the > other hand, she has no interest in hearing about it from > his teacher, and dad is just crazy. Seriously. I've been > informed that if you say anything to the parents about this > kid, dad will call and call you every swear word in the > book and threaten your life, too. Fun. > > Studend D - alone, this kid is not so bad. Unfortunately, > he is the hanger-on to student C. He has given student C a > lot of power, because he has an audience. The rest of my > kids don't play into it, but this one does. He can be > defiant too, but it is worse when we is near this other > kid. They gravitate to one another, and I am constantly > having to move them away from each other (even though I > already have them seated in opposite corners of the room). > They will shout out across the room at each other, one will > make an inappropriate comment and the other will laugh. > Alone, this kid is really nice, but with the other one, he > is a serious issue. How do I get him to my side, make > it 'worth his while' to be on my side and turn against the > trouble maker. It would take away the trouble maker's > power, if he lost his biggest fan.Calls to parents don't > work - they aren't interested. Any suggestions? > > Thanks, all. I hope your school years are starting off > well!

Sep 24, 2010

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Prof. Howard Seeman On 9/24/10, 3rd grade teacher wrote: > I must preface this by saying I have a FANTASTIC group of > kids this year. I work in a low income/high poverty > minority neighborhood. Title 1 school, in a district with > a LOT of major funding issues. We all have 30 + kids in > our classrooms, and our budgets have been cut so badly, we > ...See MoreOn 9/24/10, 3rd grade teacher wrote: > I must preface this by saying I have a FANTASTIC group of > kids this year. I work in a low income/high poverty > minority neighborhood. Title 1 school, in a district with > a LOT of major funding issues. We all have 30 + kids in > our classrooms, and our budgets have been cut so badly, we > don't even have paper to run copies on for all of our > students. So I knew this was going to be a tough year, and > I honestly can say I'm thrilled with the group I have. I > use Marvin Marshall's "Discipline Without Stress" system in > my classroom, and many - almost all - of my kids have > bought in totally with trying to be "Level D" students all > the time. They are delightful. But I do have 4 students > who are NOT doing what they need to do. I am getting > frustrated with them - but more importantly, my students > are frustrated with them (and I love that - instead of > joining in, they sit there silently and wait for the > offenders to stop, often telling them "STOP IT" and giving > them nasty looks or hand signals. - I love it!) > > Student A - a child with a lot of emotional needs. I have > this kid mostly figured out, and spoke with her about > trying to get positive attention rather than negative > attention. She seems to be doing it, so far, so I have > hope there. She is, for the most part, following the > system, but just has some issue with other kids. Certainly > not a major concern. > > Student B - this kid can't sit still. He is all over the > place no matter how much I steer him towards his seat (I > use a lot of proximity management and move constantly - it > feels, though, like I am chasing him.) If ever I have seen > a kid who needs meds for ADHD, this is one of them. Reads > at a 1st grade level, failed his first math test of the > year, and is called out by EVERY teacher who works with him > for the same things (unsafe behavior, disruptive behavior, > out of control (active) behavior.) He's a fairly nice kid, > just has NO impulse control. I have phoned, emailed and > written home with no response. Without meds, I don't see a > lot of hope, because, unfortunately, he really can't > control himself. > > Student C - here's the one I'm asking about. Defiant > little snot. He loves to be the center of his peers > attention, and could care less if he is in trouble or not. > He makes loud noises, shouts out in class (usually not > about anything we are learning about -- just random stuff > to get a rise out of kids - fortunately, most of my kids > ignore him), he is out of his seat, dawdles over > everything, and will outright defy me if given the chance. > I am on him like "flies on poop" ;) so he hasn't had much > chance to be truly defiant, and I will stand there giving > him 'the look' and wait for him all day, so he does what he > is told, but it takes a lot of energy to get him to do it. > If anyone has ideas for a behavior plan I can implement > with this kid, I would SO appreciate it. His parents get > very angry when they are told about this kid's behavior - > on the one hand, mom admits he is "a handful," but on the > other hand, she has no interest in hearing about it from > his teacher, and dad is just crazy. Seriously. I've been > informed that if you say anything to the parents about this > kid, dad will call and call you every swear word in the > book and threaten your life, too. Fun. > > Studend D - alone, this kid is not so bad. Unfortunately, > he is the hanger-on to student C. He has given student C a > lot of power, because he has an audience. The rest of my > kids don't play into it, but this one does. He can be > defiant too, but it is worse when we is near this other > kid. They gravitate to one another, and I am constantly > having to move them away from each other (even though I > already have them seated in opposite corners of the room). > They will shout out across the room at each other, one will > make an inappropriate comment and the other will laugh. > Alone, this kid is really nice, but with the other one, he > is a serious issue. How do I get him to my side, make > it 'worth his while' to be on my side and turn against the > trouble maker. It would take away the trouble maker's > power, if he lost his biggest fan.Calls to parents don't > work - they aren't interested. Any suggestions? > > Thanks, all. I hope your school years are starting off > well!

You make some good points above. However, I also think that this can be helpful to you: The book and Training Video: PREVENTING Classroom Discipline Problems

If you can get this book and video: [they are in many libraries, so you don't have to buy them] email me and I can refer you to the sections of the book and video [that demonstrates the effective vs. the ineffective teacher] that can help you.

If your library does not have them, you can get them at:

[link removed]

that are also used at this online course: [link removed]

See: Reviews at: [link removed]

If you cannot get the book or video, email me anyway, and I will try to help.

Best regards,

Howard

Howard Seeman, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus, City Univ. of New York

Prof. Seeman [email removed]

Sep 25, 2010

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sportsmama On 9/24/10, 3rd grade teacher wrote:

> > Student C - here's the one I'm asking about. Defiant > little snot. He loves to be the center of his peers > attention, and could care less if he is in trouble or not. > He makes loud noises, shouts out in class (usually not > about anything we are learning about -- just random st...See More

Sep 26, 2010

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