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High School English Teachers Chatboard

Should all schools teach the same texts?

by Jared

Mar 25, 2013

Hello,

Just wondered what peoples thoughts on this are.

Should all high schools teach the same texts so there is some kind of standardisation being taught.

Also, should students study the same texts in order to develop a national identity through them?

Many thanks.

view previous comments

Lit Teacher On 3/27/13, Jared wrote: > Thanks for responding. > > I don't live in a country that has set texts in every school but > my wife does. When she told me I was really interested by the > idea - it was something that had never occurred to me before.

What country do you live in? You use British spelling. I've taught in several ...See MoreOn 3/27/13, Jared wrote: > Thanks for responding. > > I don't live in a country that has set texts in every school but > my wife does. When she told me I was really interested by the > idea - it was something that had never occurred to me before.

What country do you live in? You use British spelling. I've taught in several private schools in the U.S. and NONE of them use the same texts and no private schools offer the I.B. program of which you speak. That offering is only found in our public schools and we use the phrase 'public schools' here to mean our government schools.

Of course I.B. and Cambridge have a set selection of texts - when you purchase I.B. or Cambridge (they're not free) you're purchasing a curriculum and curriculum comes with set texts. What we've been doing here in the States is setting standards and we're supposed to attain those standards with curriculum of our choosing.

However, now here Common Core is prevailing and we have been steadily moving toward a national standardized curriculum - in the thinking that is the problem and that changing curriculum will make a difference. I think the problem inherently lies in our structure of education and that it is incredibly outmoded given the tremendous changes that have occurred in our society. > > Another thing that interests me is that the most 'prestigious' > schools, private schools etc in my country offer the > International Baccalaureate or the Cambridge exam system which > are seen as superior (by some) to the regular national system. > Interestingly both of these systems IBacc and Cambridge have a > set selection of texts in English - novels, poems etc that all > students taking the program study. > > Just something I've been thinking about lately. > > On 3/27/13, Lit Teacher wrote: >> On 3/25/13, Jared wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> Just wondered what peoples thoughts on this are. >>> >>> Should all high schools teach the same texts so there is >>> some kind of standardisation being taught. >>> >>> Also, should students study the same texts in order to >>> develop a national identity through them? >>> >>> Many thanks. >> >> >> The idea of students developing a national identity through >> books is rather scary to me. The Nazis burned books so I guess >> they didn't work to build their national identity through >> books but they certainly wanted to build a national identity. >> >> Why in a country as large and diverse as ours do we need a >> single national identity? And what would that identity be? A >> multicultural, multifaceted identity? Would I identify with >> Willa Cather's description of the Great Plains and the Czechs >> and Swedes who settled the Plains? Is that a part of the >> national identity and if so how does that merge with the >> Italian immigrants to New York's Lower East Side and their >> urban experience? And what about faith? What faith is our >> national identity? Do we include those who have no faith in >> our national identity? Does McDonald's factor into our >> national identity? Do we acknowledge realities such as the >> fact that we've become the fattest people on the planet in our >> national identity? Or do we just read books that speak about >> how thin Daisy was in the Great Gatsby? >> >> What texts would you have everyone read? That's a fascinating >> question to me and it is done that way in some other >> countries. Every Russian school child can recite their >> national poem (which I can't spell) Eullaie Origin or >> something close to that. Most Germans know the story of Der >> ErlKoenig. >> >> Years ago many of us as schoolchildren had to memorize the >> Gettysburg Address but did that really build a national >> identity? >> >> I find the idea that every high school across this large and >> diverse country would be reading exactly the same books very >> dull and somehow it smacks of fascism to me

Mar 28, 2013

marjoryt Several years ago I sat in a meeting about Common Core - this is when the standards were first being developed. As someone who had taught at the K12 public school, community college and unversity level (taught freshman comp while a grad student), I spent a great deal of the meeting translating between the groups - we didn't even a common vocabulary...See MoreSeveral years ago I sat in a meeting about Common Core - this is when the standards were first being developed. As someone who had taught at the K12 public school, community college and unversity level (taught freshman comp while a grad student), I spent a great deal of the meeting translating between the groups - we didn't even a common vocabulary - the university instructors by and large had NEVER taught in a K12 school and had no idea of what the K12 teachers do. (Boy, were THEIR eyes opened!)

So, recalling what we college professors (community and university) would like: 1) It's not enough for the students to "enjoy" literature - we want them to WORK with it - form opinions based in fact, apply strategies from one genre to another. That literature needs to be a really wide mixture - fiction, nonfiction, graphics, popular, classic, long, short, online, printed. 2) As much as possible, we need to get students to work as independent operators - not dependent on the teacher or the worksheet for every step of the way. I have college students who expect me to stand at their shoulder and dictate to them every single step. 3) So much of life on the job and in college requires formatted paperwork. MLA is the first step in making them do that. Yes, there are so many rules - we WANT all of those rules followed. People who don't follow rules get other people killed (sorry, my mom almost died because a nurse didn't read the bag of blood - she was an O positive and got 2 pints of A positive). 4) To develop skills to deal with unfamiliar text. Probably Shakespeare is the most common assignment, but Canterbury Tales in medieval English, the Mayflower Compact, the poetry of the Puritans, even the Gettysburg Address are all literature that can help the students get those skills. 5) Composition that touches on analysis, argumentation, and evaluation. 6) This part I know some of you will hate - grammar as an exercise of logic. Not the rules, but WHY English has verb tenses, and why we don't recommend the passive tenses.

Those of us at the college level who have reviewed and worked with Common Core Standards honor the hard work you are starting. This is NOT going to be easy. However, we hope it's going to get easier, and that you continue to get good support from the states. I look very forward to getting your graduates!

Apr 17, 2013

within reason.. I do think we need leveled classes:

ESL classes

intensive classes for students reading far below grade level

standard classes

honors classes

gifted classes

Within every level I think content should be largely standardized.. about 80%. That way a teacher of honors 10th grade English knows general...See More

Jun 28, 2013

Vet Teacher On 6/28/13, within reason.. wrote: > I do think we need leveled classes: > > > > We can't just "choose the content", sit back and see success. My state > has HORRIFIC required content.. we are talking error filled worksheets > teachers must use on x date! But it's worth it to invest in creating a > good, solid standardized c...See MoreOn 6/28/13, within reason.. wrote: > I do think we need leveled classes: > > > > We can't just "choose the content", sit back and see success. My state > has HORRIFIC required content.. we are talking error filled worksheets > teachers must use on x date! But it's worth it to invest in creating a > good, solid standardized curricula. That is NOT the vaguely worded > Common Core..it's statements of what content is to be taught in each > class. > > > > > Is this because you believe that then all to many American students will graduate with the same set of skills and same general knowledge base? Is that what drives the idea of a nationally standardized curriculum?

I don't necessarily object to it but I think - based on observation - that our hopes of establishing a general knowledge base off a national curriculum are unfounded. Do we think there's a high school history class out there that doesn't teach the Civil War? Or the Declaration of Independence? The Constitution? I'm sure every high school history class covers the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

Yet most Americans including many of the teachers I work with can't tell you the difference between those two documents. They had in high school history - it was 'covered' - my colleagues are bright and educated but - a lot of what you 'learn' in school is forgotten and quickly.

I remember no algebra. None. (and my life is none the worse for it). I do know the difference between the Dec. of Independence and the Constitution but I teach history as well as American Lit./Language Arts. I do not remember a thing from chemistry but the words 'acid' and 'base' but I forget which is which. I think 'acid' and 'base' are standard to all chem classes even before there were standards but the point remains - we forget a lot of what we 'learn' and I was an A student in Chem class.

I don't object to a nationally standardized curriculum but I think it's like believing in Santa Claus to believe that a national curriculum will somehow lead to a more educated populace or a generally held knowledge base.

And with respect- check your post and your last sentence. You've forgotten that it's mean it is and it is the exception to the rule of possessives. Its is the possessive.

Yet some teacher likely drilled you on that but we forget.

Jul 3, 2013

To vet teacher.. On 7/03/13, Vet Teacher wrote: > On 6/28/13, within reason.. wrote: >> I do think we need leveled classes: >> >> >> >> We can't just "choose the content", sit back and see success. My state >> has HORRIFIC required content.. we are talking error filled worksheets >> teachers must use on x date! But it's ...See MoreOn 7/03/13, Vet Teacher wrote: > On 6/28/13, within reason.. wrote: >> I do think we need leveled classes: >> >> >> >> We can't just "choose the content", sit back and see success. My state >> has HORRIFIC required content.. we are talking error filled worksheets >> teachers must use on x date! But it's worth it to invest in creating a >> good, solid standardized curricula. That is NOT the vaguely worded >> Common Core..it's statements of what content is to be taught in each >> class. IT'S statemates of what content is to taught in each class= IT IS statements of what content is to be taught in each class. It's (ha ha) not "Its statements of..". "We would say the curriculum has non fiction--not fiction-- as ITS base.." but in the sentence above it's "it's" not its. "It's statements" does sound off since statements is plural, but it=a national curriculum (which is singular). >> >> >> >> >> Is this because you believe that then all to many American students will > graduate with the same set of skills and same general knowledge base? Is > that what drives the idea of a nationally standardized curriculum? > > I don't necessarily object to it but I think - based on observation - that > our hopes of establishing a general knowledge base off a national > curriculum are unfounded. Do we think there's a high school history class > out there that doesn't teach the Civil War? Or the Declaration of > Independence? The Constitution? I'm sure every high school history class > covers the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. > > Yet most Americans including many of the teachers I work with can't tell > you the difference between those two documents. They had in high school > history - it was 'covered' - my colleagues are bright and educated but - a > lot of what you 'learn' in school is forgotten and quickly. > > I remember no algebra. None. (and my life is none the worse for it). I do > know the difference between the Dec. of Independence and the Constitution > but I teach history as well as American Lit./Language Arts. I do not > remember a thing from chemistry but the words 'acid' and 'base' but I > forget which is which. I think 'acid' and 'base' are standard to all chem > classes even before there were standards but the point remains - we forget > a lot of what we 'learn' and I was an A student in Chem class. > > I don't object to a nationally standardized curriculum but I think it's > like believing in Santa Claus to believe that a national curriculum will > somehow lead to a more educated populace or a generally held knowledge base. > > And with respect- check your post and your last sentence. You've forgotten > that it's mean it is and it is the exception to the rule of possessives. > Its is the possessive. > > Yet some teacher likely drilled you on that but we forget.

Nov 11, 2013

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