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Learning Disorders Chatboard

Should LD teachers have to teach organizing skills?

by Debbie Carney

Sep 9, 2011

how much time do you spend organizing folders/papers before you even begin working on IEP objectives related to learning goals? Spending even 10 minutes of the 30 min session is significant. How much is this negatively impacting the student's progress overall? Do you think that organizational skill-set training should be out- sourced to a professional?

in the ideal world On 9/09/11, Debbie Carney wrote: > how much time do you spend organizing folders/papers before > you even begin working on IEP objectives related to > learning goals? Spending even 10 minutes of the 30 min > session is significant. How much is this negatively > impacting the student's progress overall? Do you think > that organiza...See MoreOn 9/09/11, Debbie Carney wrote: > how much time do you spend organizing folders/papers before > you even begin working on IEP objectives related to > learning goals? Spending even 10 minutes of the 30 min > session is significant. How much is this negatively > impacting the student's progress overall? Do you think > that organizational skill-set training should be out- > sourced to a professional?

I've rarely seen the instruction of organizational skills be successful. What many of us need is a system of organization and what many organizationally-challenged kids need is simply - less to organize. The modern trend of handing out many papers in addition to textbooks is at the root of the problem. In the old days - and I know because I'm old - we had textbooks and ditto sheets in math class only. No worksheets, no handouts, no separate three ring binder for every class, no several marble notebooks, one trapper keeper and a backpack heavy enough to break your pack.

It's really hard to stay organized in modern school. You cannot hand out papers to a class and say 'put these away' and then turn away and sit at your desk assuming students are putting them away. Some students will need your help to put them away. And some students simply need not just more help but less papers and less school stuff overall. I don't know any 'professional' who could come in and successfully teach 'organizational skill-set training'. I customize such 'training' to the student and negotiate with their classroom teachers - "Does he really need a separate binder for each subject because he's not up to keeping track of seven different binders..." "Can he possibly have an extra set of textbooks so one set can stay in his locker and one can be kept at home?" "Can you possibly three-hole punch your papers before you hand them out to the kids??"

I sit down with each of my LD kids once a week - once a day would be better - and we go through their stuff, throwing out old papers and straightening out all papers. There is no way to 'teach' that task without being very hands on. LD kids often can't do that first step - it's overwhelming - of going in their backpack where a morass of materials lies crumpled and waiting and going in their binders which are bursting at the seams.

In the ideal world, every kid with organizational skills would have a mentor who could sit down with them every day and help in a hands on way because organization is really only achieved with the hands.

Sep 11, 2011

WOW! Many LD,if not most lack organizational skills. I did myself. After developing organizational skills, I realize 1st hand, how much easier it is to learn, if you are organized. Spending 10 minutes teaching organizational strategies, not organizing the child yourself, will go a long way in meeting IEP goals.

On 9/09/11, Debbie Carney wrote:...See More

Mar 15, 2012

Jo ideal, you pointed out a few things I was going to mention. I really agree with most of what you said.

I laughed so hard when I read the part about telling the teacher to actually provide the hand out with the 3 holes punched in it if they actually wanted the paper stored in the 3 hole binder. Oh, my gosh, this is my biggest pet peeve and ...See Moreideal, you pointed out a few things I was going to mention. I really agree with most of what you said.

I laughed so hard when I read the part about telling the teacher to actually provide the hand out with the 3 holes punched in it if they actually wanted the paper stored in the 3 hole binder. Oh, my gosh, this is my biggest pet peeve and usually the complaints about organization of special education students come from the teacher that does not do so. This requires all of the kids to either use the classroom 3 hole punch as they are walking out the door or when they are supposed to do work or just shove the paper anywhere.

I think all teachers in every class need to be aiding the disorganized. Your comment about a teacher handing something out then not monitoring what the students are doing with it is also a problem. I also know that not all really understand how hard it is for some to find the right place in the binder quickly. If this child walks out of the class without the paper in the right spot, chances are it will not get in the right spot unless the paper is already labeled as to where its intended spot is. A kid with a stack of 10 papers from various classes at the end of the day will not remember which one goes in 'classwork', 'notes (handouts)', etc.

All teachers in a school need to work with, not do for, the students. They need to monitor them until they all develop the habit. This also gives the teacher a good idea of how long it is going to take for the students to achieve the task - even the stragglers. Aren't they the ones that are woefully unorganized most of the time because no one monitors them and the class goes on without them.

I also agree we expect too much in terms of volume. Worst part is in 1st grade and now in some K classes these 5 and 6 year olds have to organize all of their posessions from the 20 item class supply list. They need to keep straight their pencils, colored pencils, crayons, erasers, scissors, and on and on. Really? Our teachers handed out the paper and the pencils and then collected them. When we did do group coloring or something that took special supplies, we turned our desk and worked out of tubs of supplies. These were then collected. Of course, the floor was scanned first by all (and the teacher pointing out what was missed). Additional responsibility was added on as the grade increased and almost all work was done out of one notebook.

One of the best systems I saw for keeping helping students with papers was a numbering system that was on each handout, including homework and classwork. It had the letter of the section and the number of the paper in sequence. Sure it took some time on the part of the teacher when organizing lessons, but it kept the kids more organized. They at least had a chance to get stuff where it belonged.

My one child coming out of a year of HS had 2 printer paper boxes filled with school work from 1 year. Between work that was produced and work that was handed out it filled almost 2 boxes. The 5 subject notebook purchased for the 1 class had about 10 pages used. Thank goodness this child was organized. Heck, this child organized the teacher sometimes. LOL

On 9/11/11, in the ideal world wrote: > On 9/09/11, Debbie Carney wrote: >> how much time do you spend organizing folders/papers before >> you even begin working on IEP objectives related to >> learning goals? Spending even 10 minutes of the 30 min >> session is significant. How much is this negatively >> impacting the student's progress overall? Do you think >> that organizational skill-set training should be out- >> sourced to a professional? > > > I've rarely seen the instruction of organizational skills be > successful. What many of us need is a system of organization > and what many organizationally-challenged kids need is simply - > less to organize. The modern trend of handing out many papers > in addition to textbooks is at the root of the problem. In the > old days - and I know because I'm old - we had textbooks and > ditto sheets in math class only. No worksheets, no handouts, no > separate three ring binder for every class, no several marble > notebooks, one trapper keeper and a backpack heavy enough to > break your pack. > > It's really hard to stay organized in modern school. You cannot > hand out papers to a class and say 'put these away' and then > turn away and sit at your desk assuming students are putting > them away. Some students will need your help to put them away. > And some students simply need not just more help but less > papers and less school stuff overall. I don't know any > 'professional' who could come in and successfully teach > 'organizational skill-set training'. I customize such > 'training' to the student and negotiate with their classroom > teachers - "Does he really need a separate binder for each > subject because he's not up to keeping track of seven different > binders..." "Can he possibly have an extra set of textbooks so > one set can stay in his locker and one can be kept at home?" > "Can you possibly three-hole punch your papers before you hand > them out to the kids??" > > I sit down with each of my LD kids once a week - once a day > would be better - and we go through their stuff, throwing out > old papers and straightening out all papers. There is no way to > 'teach' that task without being very hands on. LD kids often > can't do that first step - it's overwhelming - of going in > their backpack where a morass of materials lies crumpled and > waiting and going in their binders which are bursting at the seams. > > In the ideal world, every kid with organizational skills would > have a mentor who could sit down with them every day and help > in a hands on way because organization is really only achieved > with the hands.

Mar 15, 2012

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