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Why So Judgemental?

by IworkatMickyDs

Apr 13, 2010

Why are so many older teachers and college education professors so incredibly judgemental of their students? My sister was told this semester that she should consider a career change after she was late to her reading methods class twice. The first time she was late, she had to get a biopsy to check for lymphoma, to which she mentioned earlier that week to her professor. The second time, her daughter woke up sick and she had to drop her off at moms. Both times she was told, "YOU CANT DO THAT ONCE YOU'RE A TEACHER. YOU ARE BEING VERY UNPROFESSIONAL AND SHOULD RECONSIDER YOUR CAREER" What the heck? Once you have kids, you shouldn't be a teacher? If you do become a teacher, God forbid you possibly have cancer or you're screwed?

All college professors seem to do is judge the ones they are training. I didnt go into education but my sister is having a difficult time trying to make it through her program under the watchful eyes of her professors who have nothing better to do than jud...See More

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Sara On 4/16/10, Oldteach wrote:

I sadly worked with an alcoholic teacher who was often absent and almost always came in late. The idea that school districts don't accept less than the best from their teachers is absurd - at least here in my state which admittedly is a heavy union state. Once a teacher has tenure here, anything goes except the...See MoreOn 4/16/10, Oldteach wrote:

I sadly worked with an alcoholic teacher who was often absent and almost always came in late. The idea that school districts don't accept less than the best from their teachers is absurd - at least here in my state which admittedly is a heavy union state. Once a teacher has tenure here, anything goes except the teacher.

Training programs can be demanding yes but as a classroom teacher, I had two personal days every year and I could use my sick days as personal days too. Our young teachers with young babies at home were out constantly and used every single day of their sick days every year. It is stressful and demanding to combine any work with having a family at home but it can be done and is done all the time. Some people make their work their top priority and others don't but it's not that school districts are demanding perfect attendance from teachers - at least not around here.

I never get grumpy with my students though there are times that try the patience. I had one student tell me she was at an out of town funeral via e-mail and would be at the funeral all week and then overheard her say to a classmate on her return that she'd spent the week at a casino in Las Vegas.

How does that make me feel? Like a fool? Yes. I still have this student in my class - and now it's hard for me to like having her there. But I don't 'let her have it' - it's not how people should talk to each other.

But know these things are happening and your sister caught the brunt of it. We live in interesting times.

>

> > No school system is going to allow you to consistently miss > school, come in late, leave early or come without plans > ready. > > I don't mean to sound "judgmental" or uncaring. I am truly > very sorry for your sister's health issues. However, when > there are 15-20 applicants for every teaching job, you can't > afford to be seen as not being committed to your job, esp. > before you even have one. > > > > > On 4/13/10, IworkatMickyDs wrote: >> Why are so many older teachers and college education >> professors so incredibly judgemental of their students? My >> sister was told this semester that she should consider a >> career change after she was late to her reading methods >> class twice. The first time she was late, she had to get a >> biopsy to check for lymphoma, to which she mentioned >> earlier that week to her professor. The second time, her >> daughter woke up sick and she had to drop her off at moms. >> Both times she was told, "YOU CANT DO THAT ONCE YOU'RE A >> TEACHER. YOU ARE BEING VERY UNPROFESSIONAL AND SHOULD >> RECONSIDER YOUR CAREER" What the heck? Once you have kids, >> you shouldn't be a teacher? If you do become a teacher, >> God forbid you possibly have cancer or you're screwed? >> >> All college professors seem to do is judge the ones they >> are training. I didnt go into education but my sister is >> having a difficult time trying to make it through her >> program under the watchful eyes of her professors who have >> nothing better to do than judge or criticize. So teacher >> candidates who have kids or are facing certain illnesses, >> hats off to you.

Apr 16, 2010

middle school LA Actually both spellings of judgmental are correct. I'm pushing 60 and learned to spell it without the e, but younger people and even my school system, which uses "good judgement" as a character trait, spell it with the e. Language changes, and although I have found the older spelling as preferential in many dictionaries, I'll bet in 50 years that w...See MoreActually both spellings of judgmental are correct. I'm pushing 60 and learned to spell it without the e, but younger people and even my school system, which uses "good judgement" as a character trait, spell it with the e. Language changes, and although I have found the older spelling as preferential in many dictionaries, I'll bet in 50 years that will have changed

On 4/16/10, Sara wrote: > On 4/16/10, Oldteach wrote: > > I sadly worked with an alcoholic teacher who was often absent > and almost always came in late. The idea that school districts > don't accept less than the best from their teachers is absurd - > at least here in my state which admittedly is a heavy union > state. Once a teacher has tenure here, anything goes except the > teacher. > > Training programs can be demanding yes but as a classroom > teacher, I had two personal days every year and I could use my > sick days as personal days too. Our young teachers with young > babies at home were out constantly and used every single day of > their sick days every year. It is stressful and demanding to > combine any work with having a family at home but it can be done > and is done all the time. Some people make their work their top > priority and others don't but it's not that school districts are > demanding perfect attendance from teachers - at least not around > here. > > I never get grumpy with my students though there are times that > try the patience. I had one student tell me she was at an out of > town funeral via e-mail and would be at the funeral all week and > then overheard her say to a classmate on her return that she'd > spent the week at a casino in Las Vegas. > > How does that make me feel? Like a fool? Yes. I still have this > student in my class - and now it's hard for me to like having > her there. But I don't 'let her have it' - it's not how people > should talk to each other. > > But know these things are happening and your sister caught the > brunt of it. We live in interesting times. > > >> > >>> No school system is going to allow you to consistently miss >> school, come in late, leave early or come without plans >> ready. >> >> I don't mean to sound "judgmental" or uncaring. I am truly >> very sorry for your sister's health issues. However, when >> there are 15-20 applicants for every teaching job, you can't >> afford to be seen as not being committed to your job, esp. >> before you even have one. >> >> >> >> >> On 4/13/10, IworkatMickyDs wrote: >>> Why are so many older teachers and college education >>> professors so incredibly judgemental of their students? My >>> sister was told this semester that she should consider a >>> career change after she was late to her reading methods >>> class twice. The first time she was late, she had to get a >>> biopsy to check for lymphoma, to which she mentioned >>> earlier that week to her professor. The second time, her >>> daughter woke up sick and she had to drop her off at moms. >>> Both times she was told, "YOU CANT DO THAT ONCE YOU'RE A >>> TEACHER. YOU ARE BEING VERY UNPROFESSIONAL AND SHOULD >>> RECONSIDER YOUR CAREER" What the heck? Once you have kids, >>> you shouldn't be a teacher? If you do become a teacher, >>> God forbid you possibly have cancer or you're screwed? >>> >>> All college professors seem to do is judge the ones they >>> are training. I didnt go into education but my sister is >>> having a difficult time trying to make it through her >>> program under the watchful eyes of her professors who have >>> nothing better to do than judge or criticize. So teacher >>> candidates who have kids or are facing certain illnesses, >>> hats off to you.

Apr 17, 2010

katie p. I think Sara is probably right. College professors hear so many BS excuses for why a student is not in class, they probably become immune to them. However, missing two classes in a semester should show the teacher that they're being truthful. Some professors are just not understanding and you just make it through their class because you have to. I ...See More

Apr 17, 2010

Denise I think there is a jump to conclusions in many areas of our society today. I am certain that teachers and professors hear off of the wall excuses frequently. I do, however, stand by my comment that student teaching seems to be a "weeding out" of sorts. First of all, the chaperoning thing on a Saturday night was something my coop CHOSE to do, she wa...See MoreI think there is a jump to conclusions in many areas of our society today. I am certain that teachers and professors hear off of the wall excuses frequently. I do, however, stand by my comment that student teaching seems to be a "weeding out" of sorts. First of all, the chaperoning thing on a Saturday night was something my coop CHOSE to do, she was not assigned that as any particular duty. Her friend was sponsoring the event and she thought it would be fun to go to with her husband. As I lived 40 miles from the site where the dance was to take place, was taking 3 classes at the same time I was student teaching, and had three preps, I did not feel comfortable chaperoning. I had two children that I hardly saw during my experience, I refuse to believe that teaching and parenting are mutually exclusive. I was a dedicated student teacher, and I am now a dedicated teacher. I make time for my students, that said, my children will ALWAYS come first. I shudder to think of a parent that would not say the same. My coop did not have children and had not experienced that aspect of life. She was extremely career oriented (which is fine) but also would occasionally disparage my choice to stay home with my children. I think that many coops feel they have carte blanche to say whatever they think and that student teachers better agree with it or else. I am in my late 30's, worked in human resources in the private sector, HIRED people, and have never seen another profession in which the entire future of a student is tied so much in the opinion of another. Teachers are human, they have likes and dislikes, and they are capable of holding a grudge. It does not seem like a fair system that the sum of one's educational endeavors comes down to the personal feelings of a single individual. I'm sure that you are a wonderful person and that you were fair with those in your charge, but please don't assume that everyone who had a less than stellar experience was at fault. I was to receive a written evaluation for each of the 16 weeks I was in her classroom. I received two. Complaining to the university did little, and they reminded me of the importance of her recommendation. As a consumer, I would not pay an electrician or plumber that did 1/8 of the work, but in this case I had no other stead. She was paid a stipend from my tuition, spent the bulk of my experience preparing an application for an overseas summer teaching seminar scholarship (which she won) and going on a week long field trip with students. I never missed a day in my four months, she missed 12. I would dream of saying that I was perfect and flawless in my time at the site, but I absolutely was professional in every case.

On 4/16/10, Oldteach wrote: > I would be interested in whether these two incidents were the > only two times your sister missed or was late for class. If > so, then I agree the prof was being hard-nosed and > unreasonable. If not, well.... > > > I have been both a coop teacher and taught at the college > level. The fact is, student teaching is very, very demanding > and needs to be your top priority. I realize this is hard > when you have kids, but there it is. It won't change when you > become a teacher. I have had student teachers request time off > or leave early to get their wedding gown fitted, cheer at a > basketball game, take their child to soccer practice... I > could go on and on. Once you have your own classroom, this > will not be possible. I do know that a sick child is a real > problem, because small children get sick a lot, but, in most > school systems, you are only allowed 10-15 sick days a year. > That's a little more than 1 a month. After that, you are > docked a full days' salary, which a BIG. (Divide your gross > salary ( before deductions) by 180, or however days you are > contracted for. It's a lot!- usually hundreds of dollars per > day) Also, making plans for a sub is a pain in the a**, and > getting one is a pain for the principal. It will not earn you > his or her good graces, that's for sure. That's why so many > teachers go to school sick so much. > > As a college instructor, I had students miss, or be late for, > many classes.( One was incensed when I said I could not give > her a passing grade if she missed any more classes, after she > had missed close to half of them.) I could not believe the > excuses I heard for not turning assignments in on time. In > professional level courses, one of the things you are being > graded on is professionalism, and one measure of that is your > commitment to professional obligations.( And yes, sometimes > those obligations include chaperoning dances on week-ends.) If > its part of your coop teacher's assignment, it is also yours. > No school system is going to allow you to consistently miss > school, come in late, leave early or come without plans > ready. > > I don't mean to sound "judgmental" or uncaring. I am truly > very sorry for your sister's health issues. However, when > there are 15-20 applicants for every teaching job, you can't > afford to be seen as not being committed to your job, esp. > before you even have one. > > > > > On 4/13/10, IworkatMickyDs wrote: >> Why are so many older teachers and college education >> professors so incredibly judgemental of their students? My >> sister was told this semester that she should consider a >> career change after she was late to her reading methods >> class twice. The first time she was late, she had to get a >> biopsy to check for lymphoma, to which she mentioned >> earlier that week to her professor. The second time, her >> daughter woke up sick and she had to drop her off at moms. >> Both times she was told, "YOU CANT DO THAT ONCE YOU'RE A >> TEACHER. YOU ARE BEING VERY UNPROFESSIONAL AND SHOULD >> RECONSIDER YOUR CAREER" What the heck? Once you have kids, >> you shouldn't be a teacher? If you do become a teacher, >> God forbid you possibly have cancer or you're screwed? >> >> All college professors seem to do is judge the ones they >> are training. I didnt go into education but my sister is >> having a difficult time trying to make it through her >> program under the watchful eyes of her professors who have >> nothing better to do than judge or criticize. So teacher >> candidates who have kids or are facing certain illnesses, >> hats off to you.

Apr 17, 2010

iworkatmickyds @ Denise, I think you are an excellent mom. It is nice to hear from a former student teacher, now teacher, who had to juggle children and requirements of the college of education. I'm sorry you were browbeaten by your fellow coop who did not have children and was not understanding of the demands placed on her from them.

@ OldTeach, perhaps...See More@ Denise, I think you are an excellent mom. It is nice to hear from a former student teacher, now teacher, who had to juggle children and requirements of the college of education. I'm sorry you were browbeaten by your fellow coop who did not have children and was not understanding of the demands placed on her from them.

@ OldTeach, perhaps you have had your lazy students who gave crap excuses for missing student teaching or beng late to class. If you had read my posts properly, you'd know I'm not referring to those situations...which don't only happen in education but in ALL college majors. Already you are questioning my sister's motivation to be a teacher with your snide comments about her ever being late on other ocasions. I don't think its fair for college professors and coop teachers to be so hard on mothers. And single mothers especially!!! My sisters husband died a couple years ago, she has no support system except for me and my mom, who is getting older. Couple that with nasty, bitter old bags like you who seem to want to make achieving a college education twice as hard. You seem to love to heap criticism and judgement on thse who didnt have as easy a time getting through college and student teaching, maybe like YOU did. Maybe YOU didnt have kids to worry about or your health to worry about, or a mortgage or car payment or daycare. Whatever. Maybe you'll climb down from your Ivory Tower someday.....

On 4/17/10, Denise wrote: > > I think there is a jump to conclusions in many areas of our > society today. I am certain that teachers and professors hear off > of the wall excuses frequently. I do, however, stand by my > comment that student teaching seems to be a "weeding out" of > sorts. First of all, the chaperoning thing on a Saturday night > was something my coop CHOSE to do, she was not assigned that as > any particular duty. Her friend was sponsoring the event and she > thought it would be fun to go to with her husband. As I lived 40 > miles from the site where the dance was to take place, was taking > 3 classes at the same time I was student teaching, and had three > preps, I did not feel comfortable chaperoning. I had two children > that I hardly saw during my experience, I refuse to believe that > teaching and parenting are mutually exclusive. I was a dedicated > student teacher, and I am now a dedicated teacher. I make time > for my students, that said, my children will ALWAYS come first. I > shudder to think of a parent that would not say the same. My coop > did not have children and had not experienced that aspect of life. > She was extremely career oriented (which is fine) but also would > occasionally disparage my choice to stay home with my children. I > think that many coops feel they have carte blanche to say whatever > they think and that student teachers better agree with it or else. > I am in my late 30's, worked in human resources in the private > sector, HIRED people, and have never seen another profession in > which the entire future of a student is tied so much in the > opinion of another. Teachers are human, they have likes and > dislikes, and they are capable of holding a grudge. It does not > seem like a fair system that the sum of one's educational > endeavors comes down to the personal feelings of a single > individual. I'm sure that you are a wonderful person and that you > were fair with those in your charge, but please don't assume that > everyone who had a less than stellar experience was at fault. I > was to receive a written evaluation for each of the 16 weeks I was > in her classroom. I received two. Complaining to the university > did little, and they reminded me of the importance of her > recommendation. As a consumer, I would not pay an electrician or > plumber that did 1/8 of the work, but in this case I had no other > stead. She was paid a stipend from my tuition, spent the bulk of > my experience preparing an application for an overseas summer > teaching seminar scholarship (which she won) and going on a week > long field trip with students. I never missed a day in my four > months, she missed 12. I would dream of saying that I was > perfect and flawless in my time at the site, but I absolutely was > professional in every case. > > >

Apr 18, 2010

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