Treated in an underhanded way

Join Teachers.Net

Chatboards

Recent Groups

Substitute Teachers

MEMBERS

8 Members

+ Join Group

Pinned Posts

ALLAll Teachers

Teachers.Net LIVE CHAT Support group - Tues eve!

Featured Jobs

Full-timeMontessori Teacher

Maple Ridge, British Columbia, Canada

TemporaryTeachers, rural schools

Peace River North School District

Full-timeHead Teacher: 2nd/3rd Grades – Mills College Children’s School

Mills College

Teaching Jobs on Teachers.Net

Featured Job special only $39!

https://teachers.net/jobs

Become a Teachers.Net sponsor!

Substitute Teachers Chatboard

Treated in an underhanded way

by Amy

Jun 25, 2015

Thoughts please. You were a sub at a school that had you on the preferred list, and you worked their every other day for 4 years.

Suddenly, you stop getting calls on the call out system for jobs at that school.

You are suspicious that something isn't right - something underhanded has been done to you.

Finally, in an attempt to find out what has happened, you flat out ask the principal if you have been removed from the preferred list. The answer is an honest yes. Just as you suspected.

In the principal's office you are told that you are an absolutely great substitute teacher, friendly, organized, follows lesson plans, etc. BUT, your classroom management skills are lacking. You are reminded of an incident that happened last year where you left a 2 page letter for the classroom teacher you covered for explaining that one of the students stole a glass vase chocolate holder. The principal says that as a sub you must deal more effectively with classro...See More

Comment

(23)

report post

view previous comments

Amy On 6/28/15, pixie's random thoughts wrote:

Thanks Pixie. You said that it is unusual to be removed
from the list and then be put back on. I think that the
principal got caught off guard, maybe felt stupid, and
felt compelled to rectify the wrongdoing by putting me
back on the list.

I agree, how can I ever feel comfor...See More

Jun 29, 2015

report post

pixie to amy Amy, In the school districts where I have subbed, if a teacher complains about you for any reason (and you may be completely unaware that there was any issue), the principal immediately notifies HR and you later get a call or letter from HR, who keeps track of the number of complaints and then when they reach a certain number, say three, you are co...See MoreAmy, In the school districts where I have subbed, if a teacher complains about you for any reason (and you may be completely unaware that there was any issue), the principal immediately notifies HR and you later get a call or letter from HR, who keeps track of the number of complaints and then when they reach a certain number, say three, you are completely fired from the district. Your side of the story makes no difference whatsoever, as Ze has so eloquently explained on this board. So, in that sense you "dodged a bullet," by apparently not having a negative note in your HR file. Still, best not to press your luck by going back to that school. Have a great summer and try to put this unpleasant incident behind you. Many of us on this board know how you feel.

On 6/29/15, Amy wrote: > On 6/28/15, pixie's random thoughts wrote: > > Thanks Pixie. You said that it is unusual to be removed > from the list and then be put back on. I think that the > principal got caught off guard, maybe felt stupid, and > felt compelled to rectify the wrongdoing by putting me > back on the list. > > I agree, how can I ever feel comfortable working at that > school again, at least wile that principal is still there. > The trust has been compromised. I don't know that this > situation can be righted now. Even if I were to return > after the principal leaves there, I would feel weird, > plus, the teachers would all ask me why I disappeared for > a year. > >> 1. It is not unusual to be blocked from a school for >> petty or unfounded reasons, regardless of how many >> successful days you have subbed there. Ze is correct; you >> can never really feel secure in any school. 2. A veteran >> teacher told me years ago that no amount of classroom >> management can prevent ALL misbehavior, but you will >> still be held responsible for anything that happens in >> the room. Example: A kid who has recently been unwell has >> head down on desk. You lean over asking him quietly if he >> needs to go the nurse. During that brief moment, another >> student does a silly dance move outside your range of >> vision. The teacher across the hall sees the silliness >> and, rather than tell you, she reports it to the >> principal, who scolds you for not seeing it. You explain >> about the sick child but he doesn't care, accuses you of >> bad classroom management. It feels horrible to be treated >> this way. 3. Showing a warm manner does not mean that you >> are too lax or "trying to be their friend." An overly >> harsh manner that some subs adopt can provoke defiance >> and just make the kids, even the good kids, feel >> disrespected and resentful. The best demeanor, IMHO, is >> warm and positive while brisk and businesslike at the >> same time. You don't need to choose between being >> respected and liked. You can be both. Many students >> respond favorably if they can tell that you actually like >> being there with them. 4. To put your experience in >> perspective, it is very unusual to be blocked and then >> unblocked from a school. But going back there wouldn't >> you feel you were walking on eggshells? Even though you >> enjoy subbing at that school, I agree with the advice >> that since you have other options, it might be less >> stressful to avoid that school. I probably would not >> return. 5. Please do not post in all-caps. The eyes have >> to work harder to read it.

Jun 29, 2015

report post

Ann I can imagine how you feel. I would feel the same way. I would definitely NOT go back to that school. First of all, you were treated in a shabby, sneaky, disrespectful manner and for that reason alone I would not want to go back there. I would never feel comfortable or welcome there and I would always have their nasty behavior in the back of my min...See MoreI can imagine how you feel. I would feel the same way. I would definitely NOT go back to that school. First of all, you were treated in a shabby, sneaky, disrespectful manner and for that reason alone I would not want to go back there. I would never feel comfortable or welcome there and I would always have their nasty behavior in the back of my mind; as a result no one would benefit from me being there...myself or the students. Also, you have pride. By returning to the school that didn't want you, you would be lowering yourself and appearing needy and lacking in self-esteem. Since you admit you are "too nice" you will always have management issues in some form or another and I'm certain that you would have incidents involving behavior similar to the stealing incident. The next time you won't be re-instated. You don't want to go through this again ...it would be very humiliating to say the least. Keep your pride and substitute elsewhere. I would write the principal a letter stating how you feel about the situation and explain that you are not returning because of the way you were treated. Good luck and please let us know what you decide to do. By the way I am a retired teacher who now substitutes on a regular basis (nearly every day). I would never tolerate this type of treatment.

On 6/25/15, Amy wrote: > > Thoughts please. > You were a sub at a school that had you on the preferred > list, and you worked their every other day for 4 years. > > Suddenly, you stop getting calls on the call out system for > jobs at that school. > > You are suspicious that something isn't right - something > underhanded has been done to you. > > Finally, in an attempt to find out what has happened, you > flat out ask the principal if you have been removed from > the preferred list. The answer is an honest yes. Just as > you suspected. > > In the principal's office you are told that you are an > absolutely great substitute teacher, friendly, organized, > follows lesson plans, etc. BUT, your classroom management > skills are lacking. You are reminded of an incident that > happened last year where you left a 2 page letter for the > classroom teacher you covered for explaining that one of > the students stole a glass vase chocolate holder. The > principal says that as a sub you must deal more > effectively > with classroom management issues, and if all else fails, > notify the administrators of the situation. > > But I was not removed from the preferred list until just a > few months ago. > > These are my questions and remarks: > > 1) If the principal had a beef with me about something, > wouldn't the right thing to do be to speak to me first > (especially since I have a long time good rapport with the > administrator) before abruptly taking me off the preferred > list, almost 1 year later I might add? There was another > issue a few months ago, involving a student being > physically aggressive toward another student, but it was > not my fault. > > 2) After our meeting the administrator asked the secretary > to put me back on the preferred list. > > I actually like working at that school, but I have my > pride. This is a tough school with students with learning > and behavioural issues. All the students love me there. > But > the principal suggested that I might be too nice. I have > never had any classroom management issues at the other > schools I routinely sub at. > > Needless to say, I feel betrayed and offended on how this > was handled by the principal - I thought we had a great > above board rapport. The principal sometimes comes into > the classroom to shake my hand. And lately when the > principal sees me say "I haven't seen you in ages". Duh, no > kidding, especially since the principal in question is the > one who took me off the list in the first place and was > trying to act so nice and innocent. I greatly dislike phony > behaviour and dirty tricks, especially by someone I thought > was always above board with me, and has known me for 7 > years. I thought that his person wouldn't do something so > low, ever. Maybe the Chinese proverb is totally right "love > everybody, but trust no one". > > Do any of you feel that this what was done to me was > sneaky, dirty, and as underhanded? Am I justified in > feeling betrayed? Wasn't the honourable thing to do by the > principal to meet with me privately first to discuss the > concerns? To pull me off the preferred list and act like > everything is business as usual is deception, phony, > underhanded and quite simply a dirty trick. I thought this > individual would have had more tact to say the least. You > just never truly know people it appears. > > Now that the principal put me back on the list, should I > continue to sub at that school next year, or make a bold > statement and stop subbing there? Unfortunately the kids > will lose because I have made a huge difference there for > them. Still, my feeling about that school have now changed. > Suddenly I don't truly feel welcome anymore, especially by > the administration. I was put back on the list out of > guilt. Being such a pushover in his eyes, the principal > never thought I would have the courage to confront him. He > got caught off guard. So maybe I got the final laugh. I > just feel like I was made a fool of. > > I get tons of sub work at the other schools closer to home > where I have never, ever, been treated this way. I don't > need charity work - yes I do have my pride. What you choose? > > Thoughts please.

Jul 21, 2015

report post

pixie Ann, the OP did not say that she is too nice. She said, "the principal suggested that I might be too nice." There is a difference. I think we agree that she should not go back there but, with all due respect to your experience, I disagree with your suggestion that the OP "write the principal a letter stating how you feel about the si...See MoreAnn, the OP did not say that she is too nice. She said, "the principal suggested that I might be too nice." There is a difference. I think we agree that she should not go back there but, with all due respect to your experience, I disagree with your suggestion that the OP "write the principal a letter stating how you feel about the situation and explain that you are not returning because of the way you were treated." I say this because, although it might be extremely tempting to write such a letter, I'm not sure what the OP would accomplish. The letter may well be passed along to HR and construed as the OP not being open to criticism, not reflecting on professional practice, and rejecting suggestions for self-improvement. As a former teacher you may be familiar with the reality that teacher or sub attempts to set the record straight/defend one's self to administrators may be interpreted in those ways. If I were the OP I would quietly continue subbing at other schools and just put the past behind me.

On 7/21/15, Ann wrote: > I can imagine how you feel. I would feel the same way. I > would definitely NOT go back to that school. First of all, > you were treated in a shabby, sneaky, disrespectful manner > and for that reason alone I would not want to go back there. > I would never feel comfortable or welcome there and I would > always have their nasty behavior in the back of my mind; as a > result no one would benefit from me being there...myself or > the students. Also, you have pride. By returning to the > school that didn't want you, you would be lowering yourself > and appearing needy and lacking in self-esteem. Since you > admit you are "too nice" you will always have management > issues in some form or another and I'm certain that you would > have incidents involving behavior similar to the stealing > incident. The next time you won't be re-instated. You don't > want to go through this again ...it would be very humiliating > to say the least. Keep your pride and substitute elsewhere. > I would write the principal a letter stating how you feel > about the situation and explain that you are not returning > because of the way you were treated. Good luck and please > let us know what you decide to do. By the way I am a retired > teacher who now substitutes on a regular basis (nearly every > day). I would never tolerate this type of treatment. > > On 6/25/15, Amy wrote: >> >> Thoughts please. >> You were a sub at a school that had you on the preferred >> list, and you worked their every other day for 4 years. >> >> Suddenly, you stop getting calls on the call out system for >> jobs at that school. >> >> You are suspicious that something isn't right - something >> underhanded has been done to you. >> >> Finally, in an attempt to find out what has happened, you >> flat out ask the principal if you have been removed from >> the preferred list. The answer is an honest yes. Just as >> you suspected. >> >> In the principal's office you are told that you are an >> absolutely great substitute teacher, friendly, organized, >> follows lesson plans, etc. BUT, your classroom management >> skills are lacking. You are reminded of an incident that >> happened last year where you left a 2 page letter for the >> classroom teacher you covered for explaining that one of >> the students stole a glass vase chocolate holder. The >> principal says that as a sub you must deal more >> effectively >> with classroom management issues, and if all else fails, >> notify the administrators of the situation. >> >> But I was not removed from the preferred list until just a >> few months ago. >> >> These are my questions and remarks: >> >> 1) If the principal had a beef with me about something, >> wouldn't the right thing to do be to speak to me first >> (especially since I have a long time good rapport with the >> administrator) before abruptly taking me off the preferred >> list, almost 1 year later I might add? There was another >> issue a few months ago, involving a student being >> physically aggressive toward another student, but it was >> not my fault. >> >> 2) After our meeting the administrator asked the secretary >> to put me back on the preferred list. >> >> I actually like working at that school, but I have my >> pride. This is a tough school with students with learning >> and behavioural issues. All the students love me there. >> But >> the principal suggested that I might be too nice. I have >> never had any classroom management issues at the other >> schools I routinely sub at. >> >> Needless to say, I feel betrayed and offended on how this >> was handled by the principal - I thought we had a great >> above board rapport. The principal sometimes comes into >> the classroom to shake my hand. And lately when the >> principal sees me say "I haven't seen you in ages". Duh, no >> kidding, especially since the principal in question is the >> one who took me off the list in the first place and was >> trying to act so nice and innocent. I greatly dislike phony >> behaviour and dirty tricks, especially by someone I thought >> was always above board with me, and has known me for 7 >> years. I thought that his person wouldn't do something so >> low, ever. Maybe the Chinese proverb is totally right "love >> everybody, but trust no one". >> >> Do any of you feel that this what was done to me was >> sneaky, dirty, and as underhanded? Am I justified in >> feeling betrayed? Wasn't the honourable thing to do by the >> principal to meet with me privately first to discuss the >> concerns? To pull me off the preferred list and act like >> everything is business as usual is deception, phony, >> underhanded and quite simply a dirty trick. I thought this >> individual would have had more tact to say the least. You >> just never truly know people it appears. >> >> Now that the principal put me back on the list, should I >> continue to sub at that school next year, or make a bold >> statement and stop subbing there? Unfortunately the kids >> will lose because I have made a huge difference there for >> them. Still, my feeling about that school have now changed. >> Suddenly I don't truly feel welcome anymore, especially by >> the administration. I was put back on the list out of >> guilt. Being such a pushover in his eyes, the principal >> never thought I would have the courage to confront him. He >> got caught off guard. So maybe I got the final laugh. I >> just feel like I was made a fool of. >> >> I get tons of sub work at the other schools closer to home >> where I have never, ever, been treated this way. I don't >> need charity work - yes I do have my pride. What you choose? >> >> Thoughts please.

Jul 21, 2015

report post

Amy On 7/21/15, pixie wrote: > Ann, the OP did not say that she is too nice. She said, "the > principal suggested that I might be too nice." There is a > difference. > I think we agree that she should not go back there but, with > all due respect to your experience, I disagree with your > suggestion that the OP "write t...See MoreOn 7/21/15, pixie wrote: > Ann, the OP did not say that she is too nice. She said, "the > principal suggested that I might be too nice." There is a > difference. > I think we agree that she should not go back there but, with > all due respect to your experience, I disagree with your > suggestion that the OP "write the principal a letter stating > how you feel about the situation and explain that you are not > returning because of the way you were treated." I say this > because, although it might be extremely tempting to write > such a letter, I'm not sure what the OP would accomplish. The > letter may well be passed along to HR and construed as the OP > not being open to criticism, not reflecting on professional > practice, and rejecting suggestions for self-improvement. As > a former teacher you may be familiar with the reality that > teacher or sub attempts to set the record straight/defend > one's self to administrators may be interpreted in those > ways. If I were the OP I would quietly continue subbing at > other schools and just put the past behind me. > > Thanks Pixie.

I won't write the letter because it would fall on deaf ears. The damage has been done. I was betrayed by a principal who I thought liked me and had my back. He would come into the classroom and shake my hand whenever I was there. I've known him for 8 years. This was a back stab betrayal plain and simple. The trust has been compromised. I honestly believe that I would make a much bigger statement by simply not subbing there anymore - the principal knows perfectly well that was done to me was wrong and inexcusable. I imagine that there will be gossip among the teachers and some students about why I no longer go there. I did share with one teacher whom I covered for very often that I suddenly stopped getting called by the callout system ad that I thought that was suspicious. Maybe he will put 2 and 2 together and figure out that I was screwed over by the principal. I doesn't matter, because life goes on, there are other subs. I did get the work done for all the teachers I covered for, and the kids really liked me because I was fair. It is a known fact that a lot of poverty, domestic, child and substance abuse exists in the homes of a good part of those student's homes. The last thing those students need is to be treated harshly at school. I believe that good teaching and empathy go hand in hand. That is what we as teachers try hard to uphold. I now I do. > > On 7/21/15, Ann wrote: >> I can imagine how you feel. I would feel the same way. I >> would definitely NOT go back to that school. First of all, >> you were treated in a shabby, sneaky, disrespectful manner >> and for that reason alone I would not want to go back > there. >> I would never feel comfortable or welcome there and I would >> always have their nasty behavior in the back of my mind; as > a >> result no one would benefit from me being there...myself or >> the students. Also, you have pride. By returning to the >> school that didn't want you, you would be lowering yourself >> and appearing needy and lacking in self-esteem. Since you >> admit you are "too nice" you will always have management >> issues in some form or another and I'm certain that you > would >> have incidents involving behavior similar to the stealing >> incident. The next time you won't be re-instated. You don't >> want to go through this again ...it would be very > humiliating >> to say the least. Keep your pride and substitute elsewhere. >> I would write the principal a letter stating how you feel >> about the situation and explain that you are not returning >> because of the way you were treated. Good luck and please >> let us know what you decide to do. By the way I am a > retired >> teacher who now substitutes on a regular basis (nearly > every >> day). I would never tolerate this type of treatment. >> >> On 6/25/15, Amy wrote: >>> >>> Thoughts please. >>> You were a sub at a school that had you on the preferred >>> list, and you worked their every other day for 4 years. >>> >>> Suddenly, you stop getting calls on the call out system > for >>> jobs at that school. >>> >>> You are suspicious that something isn't right - something >>> underhanded has been done to you. >>> >>> Finally, in an attempt to find out what has happened, you >>> flat out ask the principal if you have been removed from >>> the preferred list. The answer is an honest yes. Just as >>> you suspected. >>> >>> In the principal's office you are told that you are an >>> absolutely great substitute teacher, friendly, organized, >>> follows lesson plans, etc. BUT, your classroom management >>> skills are lacking. You are reminded of an incident that >>> happened last year where you left a 2 page letter for the >>> classroom teacher you covered for explaining that one of >>> the students stole a glass vase chocolate holder. The >>> principal says that as a sub you must deal more >>> effectively >>> with classroom management issues, and if all else fails, >>> notify the administrators of the situation. >>> >>> But I was not removed from the preferred list until just a >>> few months ago. >>> >>> These are my questions and remarks: >>> >>> 1) If the principal had a beef with me about something, >>> wouldn't the right thing to do be to speak to me first >>> (especially since I have a long time good rapport with the >>> administrator) before abruptly taking me off the preferred >>> list, almost 1 year later I might add? There was another >>> issue a few months ago, involving a student being >>> physically aggressive toward another student, but it was >>> not my fault. >>> >>> 2) After our meeting the administrator asked the secretary >>> to put me back on the preferred list. >>> >>> I actually like working at that school, but I have my >>> pride. This is a tough school with students with learning >>> and behavioural issues. All the students love me there. >>> But >>> the principal suggested that I might be too nice. I have >>> never had any classroom management issues at the other >>> schools I routinely sub at. >>> >>> Needless to say, I feel betrayed and offended on how this >>> was handled by the principal - I thought we had a great >>> above board rapport. The principal sometimes comes into >>> the classroom to shake my hand. And lately when the >>> principal sees me say "I haven't seen you in ages". Duh, > no >>> kidding, especially since the principal in question is the >>> one who took me off the list in the first place and was >>> trying to act so nice and innocent. I greatly dislike > phony >>> behaviour and dirty tricks, especially by someone I > thought >>> was always above board with me, and has known me for 7 >>> years. I thought that his person wouldn't do something so >>> low, ever. Maybe the Chinese proverb is totally right > "love >>> everybody, but trust no one". >>> >>> Do any of you feel that this what was done to me was >>> sneaky, dirty, and as underhanded? Am I justified in >>> feeling betrayed? Wasn't the honourable thing to do by the >>> principal to meet with me privately first to discuss the >>> concerns? To pull me off the preferred list and act like >>> everything is business as usual is deception, phony, >>> underhanded and quite simply a dirty trick. I thought this >>> individual would have had more tact to say the least. You >>> just never truly know people it appears. >>> >>> Now that the principal put me back on the list, should I >>> continue to sub at that school next year, or make a bold >>> statement and stop subbing there? Unfortunately the kids >>> will lose because I have made a huge difference there for >>> them. Still, my feeling about that school have now > changed. >>> Suddenly I don't truly feel welcome anymore, especially by >>> the administration. I was put back on the list out of >>> guilt. Being such a pushover in his eyes, the principal >>> never thought I would have the courage to confront him. He >>> got caught off guard. So maybe I got the final laugh. I >>> just feel like I was made a fool of. >>> >>> I get tons of sub work at the other schools closer to home >>> where I have never, ever, been treated this way. I don't >>> need charity work - yes I do have my pride. What you > choose? >>> >>> Thoughts please.

Aug 5, 2015

report post