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Teacher Unions Chatboard

Why wouldn't you belong to a union?

by Rin

Jun 9, 2011

I am still amazed in the number of people who do not belong to their union. Although Florida is a right to work state, our union keeps some of the bad legislation from being passed or fighting it after the fact. Look what they did with vouchers? Even in a bad economy, if the union wasn't working on behalf of teachers and education professionals it would be worse. I hear educational professionals say they can't afford the dues. I don't know how they can afford not of to pay them. So many ride on the tail coats of others. It irritates me when they to say what is the union doing for me? My response is, do you have a duty free lunch, planning time, personal freedom(can't be fired for dating, etc.). You enjoy these because someone before you had the courage and initiative to fight for you.

In my district they have tried to go around the union, they love to pay attorney fees to support their bad behavior. Most times the district is found at fault by the hearing officers.

view previous comments

Teri On 6/09/11, Rin wrote: > I am still amazed in the number of people who do not belong > to their union. Although Florida is a right to work state, > our union keeps some of the bad legislation from being > passed or fighting it after the fact. Look what they did > with vouchers? Even in a bad economy, if the union wasn't > working ...See More

Jun 30, 2011

TERRY On 6/09/11, Rin wrote: > I am still amazed in the number of people who do not belong > to their union. Although Florida is a right to work state, > our union keeps some of the bad legislation from being > passed or fighting it after the fact. Look what they did > with vouchers? Even in a bad economy, if the union wasn't > working ...See MoreOn 6/09/11, Rin wrote: > I am still amazed in the number of people who do not belong > to their union. Although Florida is a right to work state, > our union keeps some of the bad legislation from being > passed or fighting it after the fact. Look what they did > with vouchers? Even in a bad economy, if the union wasn't > working on behalf of teachers and education professionals > it would be worse. I hear educational professionals say > they can't afford the dues. I don't know how they can > afford not of to pay them. So many ride on the tail coats > of others. It irritates me when they to say what is the > union doing for me? My response is, do you have a duty free > lunch, planning time, personal freedom(can't be fired for > dating, etc.). You enjoy these because someone before you > had the courage and initiative to fight for you. > > In my district they have tried to go around the union, they > love to pay attorney fees to support their bad behavior. > Most times the district is found at fault by the hearing > officers.

I can't believe the teachers union is endorsing that communist no good SOB who has done nothing he stated he was going to do when he was elected!!! I would take my children out of the school if I had them at home and train them my self!!! If the teachers are that dumb then they aren't teaching my kids!!! Gee is the proof in the pudding?? Our kids can not read and write and do not have mathematical skills. I do feel we should not pay taxes for them and they should have to live under Obama health care plan that they obviously think is Great !!! I guess they have never heard the saying actions speak louder then words!! They said they are endorsing him because he cares about education LMAOFOF My father was right when the Vietnam war was on that we would have a slew of draft dodging social communistic teachers to avoid the war!!! Who would have thought that 2 of them would be become president!!!! I want to add something to the Constitution and that is you have to have been in the Military and honorable discharged to be PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES as how can you be Commander and Chief of the Military!!!!!

Jul 5, 2011

led Doesn't the law itself ensure any employee to due process? What about all the people in the private sector that have jobs? However, they don't have tenure. And they don't go on strike.

No, the law does not protect employees in much more than hypothetical ways. I was wrongfully terminated without due process. No attorney wanted to touch my...See More

Aug 31, 2011

anon What people have to understand is private sector employers, at least the larger ones, are much more careful about terminating employees than public schools. The reason for that is a lawsuit could bankrupt a business, or, if they have insurance, create a wrong public impression, which can hurt the bottom line.

Public schools, because they ...See MoreWhat people have to understand is private sector employers, at least the larger ones, are much more careful about terminating employees than public schools. The reason for that is a lawsuit could bankrupt a business, or, if they have insurance, create a wrong public impression, which can hurt the bottom line.

Public schools, because they are supported with taxpayer funds, can pull all kinds of illegal garbage and get away with it. They don't care if people sue because their insurance company will pay for federal suits, assuming you can even find a lawyer to take it, and that is just about impossible given the fact districts drag cases out for years on end. Teachers, contrary to tenure laws, have NO rights at all. Administrators have obscene power to destroy lives and careers, and the districts will back these morons and cretins to the hilt.

The "union" and its law firm were useless in my case: they colluded with the school district after my last principal and the human resources chief officer both screwed up with my case. My "offense" didn't even merit an oral reprimand, yet this miserable human being of a principal FIRED me violating state and federal law.

It is very easy to fire teachers because school districts operate above the law. Administrative law isn't worth the paper it is written on.

On 8/31/11, led wrote: > Doesn't the law itself ensure any employee to due process? What about > all the people in the private sector that have jobs? However, they > don't have tenure. And they don't go on strike. > > No, the law does not protect employees in much more than hypothetical > ways. I was wrongfully terminated without due process. No attorney > wanted to touch my case because I would have had to fight in Claims > Court, which is not a good place to be if you want to win a case. > > > Why the need for tenure? If you are a good teacher, the business > (school) would be crazy to get rid of you. > > Simple. Because you become too expensive to hold on to. And with that > experience ($$) behind you, no one else will want to hire you either. > Employees in the private sector experience this all the time. It's > called ageism.

Oct 8, 2011

anon The sad truth is principals do this anyway, and districts back them up and rig the legal process in order to protect the principals who break the law.

Tenure is simply the "right" to a rigged hearing, which is paid for by school districts. School districts want to get rid of "tenure" to save money on hearings; they couldn't care less abou...See MoreThe sad truth is principals do this anyway, and districts back them up and rig the legal process in order to protect the principals who break the law.

Tenure is simply the "right" to a rigged hearing, which is paid for by school districts. School districts want to get rid of "tenure" to save money on hearings; they couldn't care less about the increased number of federal suits because they don't pay for them directly--their insurance companies do.

On 6/19/11, Michele wrote: > The need for tenure is simple. It means that you cannot > be fired without just > cause/due process. That should be the minimum > expectation of ANY professional! > > Without tenure, an administrator can decide they didn't > like something you said/did/wore or ate for that matter > and they could then FIRE you. And if you don't think we > have thousands and thousands of lousy administrators > like that all around the country, then you're a fool. > At the dairy the cream rises to the top, but in > education it's the crap that rises, more often than > not. > > > > On 6/14/11, sci-saxet --- I think you missed my ques on > tenure wrote: >> On 6/12/11, Stellaluna to sci-saxet wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Why the need for tenure? If you are a good >>>> teacher, the business (school) would be crazy to >>>> get rid of you. >>> >>> This would seem logical, however often not the >>> case. That would rely on the premise that all >>> administrators are competent... or that only the >>> best teachers who actually have an adequate >>> understanding of how students learn are promoted >>> into these positions which, unfortunately is not >>> the case. >> >> and you gave the example below. But I still do not >> see the need for tenure. I have a term contract. In >> Texas, the education code also says that if a >> district does not notify you that you won't have a >> job, then you will have a job (my words not the >> codes). So if my evaluation is good, then I need not >> worry. If it is not good, then your evaluator should >> be mentoring you and prescribing a plan for you to >> improve. This would require lots of documentation. >> Now if you are on probation, then this is less strict >> and the district can just let you go for no cause at >> the end of the year. >> >> Do you have someone(s) come in and evaluate your >> performance? How many times a year and for how long? >> Do they then go over your performance at the end of >> the year? (we call this a summative) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I know of a principal who was given the position >>> after only 2 yrs of teaching because HE WAS THE >>> ONLY MALE ON STAFF. Yep... he was a lousy teacher.. >>> so not surprisingly he was a lousy admin. Luckily, >>> he only lasted 5 yrs... but those were BAAAAAD >>> years. No clue. He shuffled students around to be >>> sure that the young, cute teachers got all of the >>> well-behaved, high performing students and the rest >>> went to those that he didn't care for. Thenhe >>> evaluated them based on student performance... and >>> no I'm not a bitter teacher who got all of the poor >>> performing students. I worked at a different site, >>> but my best friend was one of those cute new >>> teachers who knew her class was stacked. >>> >>> The business model does not mesh in schools because >>> there are many factors that are out of our control >>> in terms of our "product". >>> >>> Also, I have a dear friend in the private sector >>> who after 30 yrs of successful service just had his >>> job eliminated. Fortunately for him, he had been >>> paid very well over the years and is financially >>> stable even if he doesn't find another job. But do >>> you want this kind of vulnerablility? 30 years of a >>> low paying job so NO financial security... and then >>> what? On the whim of an admin. who doesn't LIKE >>> you? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Seems that you are paying the union lots of money >>>> to do something that is already written in the >>>> law. And then they give a lot of that money for >>>> one political party. >>>> >>> >>> If it was already written into the law and workers >>> were protected... then why so many grievances? >>> Also, who is going to come to bat for you and >>> ensure that the district is following the law. Can >>> you afford a lawyer on teachers pay (which >>> incidentally would be even lower without union >>> representation). >>> >>> Last year our school board voted to cut teachers >>> salaries by a whopping 17 percent. No cuts to >>> admin. (who are the highest paid in our county >>> while our teachers are in the average range for our >>> county BEFORE the cuts), cut a ton of support staff >>> but NO other cost saving attempts were implemented. >>> Through countless hours of negotiations, our union >>> managed to reduce the cuts to 6 percent by >>> including admin. in the cuts, finding other ways to >>> cut costs by trimming spending in all areas of the >>> budget, and by hiring a lawyer that proved that the >>> district was not as financially poor as it claimed. >>> In addition, our union insisted that the cuts >>> include restorative language for all so that when >>> there was an increase in revenues that we predicted >>> that the district vowed would never come, we got 4 >>> percent of the cut returned to us. All we wanted >>> was to be treated fairly and compensated at a rate >>> that was in line with the rest of the school >>> districts. >>> >>> Without our union, many of us... me included... >>> would have lost our homes. I could not have made it >>> with a 17 percent cut to my salary (esp. >>> considering we have not even had COLA in 5 yrs - so >>> my buying power had already been reduced before the >>> cut) >>> >>> If I never appreciated my union before... I >>> certainly do now! >>> >>> 5 years ago I never would have predicted that our >>> situation would require such action.... but now I >>> know to expect the worst and be ready to fight for >>> what is right and fair. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>

Oct 8, 2011

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