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So based on Sped's response, even if a teacher opts out of >joining the union (perhaps because he or she does not want >to pay union dues, has philosophical issues, etc.) they >still must pay union dues
Yep.
> (so membership is mandatory for >all intents and purposes).
Well, again it's not exactly mandatory...See MoreSo based on Sped's response, even if a teacher opts out of >joining the union (perhaps because he or she does not want >to pay union dues, has philosophical issues, etc.) they >still must pay union dues
Yep.
> (so membership is mandatory for >all intents and purposes).
Well, again it's not exactly mandatory. You choose to not be a member of the union, so you're covered if you have philosophical issues, but you will pay the same amount as a member and you will receive no benefits. Not a good choice, in my opinion, but a choice none the less.
>How does this work? Does the school district take money out >of the teacher's check and hand it over to the union?
Yep. This is not just the realm of teachers, but also included in any "closed shop". Basically, if you've governed by collective bargaining you must be a member of the union or at least pay fair share.
I am a non tenured teacher that is not being offered a >contract for next year. I am being encouraged to resign. >What are the pros and cons of resigning over being non- >renewed?
I've always hated districts that do this. Basically there aren't many pros for you. A big "con" is that this could mess up unemployment benefits for yo...See MoreI am a non tenured teacher that is not being offered a >contract for next year. I am being encouraged to resign. >What are the pros and cons of resigning over being non- >renewed?
I've always hated districts that do this. Basically there aren't many pros for you. A big "con" is that this could mess up unemployment benefits for you, though I've heard some are winning this after a lengthy appeals process. However, technically if you resign, you're quitting voluntarily and not eligible for unemployment checks.
This also clears the way if you're in a "shortage" field (not many of those anymore), and they want to hire someone who is not fully or properly certified. Technically they couldn't get you an emergency credential if you were willing to work the job, but that's a non-issue if you resign.
The only pro is that you can then check the no box when a district asks "have you ever been terminated by a district." However, there almost always is a box right by this one that asks "have you been asked to resign?" Yeah, it's about the same thing.
To be honest, with the teaching market the way it is, it's unlikely you'll get another job next year, and you're gonna need those unemployment benefits, maybe for longer than you think. My advice is to not resign.
wow, that's kinda like extortion. Some guy shows up at my house, mows my lawn without me asking him to, then tacks a bill to my door. Then the city government automatically deducts the money from my checking account.
I protest but am told that he doesn't have to continue mowing my lawn, but the city will still keep taking money out of my a...See Morewow, that's kinda like extortion. Some guy shows up at my house, mows my lawn without me asking him to, then tacks a bill to my door. Then the city government automatically deducts the money from my checking account.
I protest but am told that he doesn't have to continue mowing my lawn, but the city will still keep taking money out of my account anyway.
Now a collective bargaining agreement might help some teachers (those with tenure who have been in the system a long time), but it also hurts new teachers. The "last in first out" policy means young, dynamic, effective teachers are let go so that old, ineffective, unethical teachers can enjoy fat paychecks and job security.
The teacher's union in Illinois essentially operates like a cartel. The movie "Waiting for Superman" illustrates the plight of students in systems like this.
wow, that's kinda like extortion.
No it's not. Extortion is what administrators do to teachers in non-tenured, non-union states. Buy a bunch of stuff for your classroom, or you won't be here next year.
> Some guy shows up at my >house, mows my lawn without me asking him to, then tacks a >bill to my door. Then the city go...See Morewow, that's kinda like extortion.
No it's not. Extortion is what administrators do to teachers in non-tenured, non-union states. Buy a bunch of stuff for your classroom, or you won't be here next year.
> Some guy shows up at my >house, mows my lawn without me asking him to, then tacks a >bill to my door. Then the city government automatically >deducts the money from my checking account.
Well, your analogy would imply that this happened without your knowledge. A better analogy would be a condo or home owner's association. You buy a home in the association. You agree to pay a fee and to abide by certain rules, in exchange they provide certain services. If you don't want to be a member, live elsewhere. There are many, many non-union teaching jobs all over the country, even in closed-shop states. They're in private schools. Feel free to work there. They pay next to nothing and you're treated like crap. They pay next to nothing and you're treated like crap BECAUSE they're non-union.
>Now a collective bargaining agreement might help some >teachers (those with tenure who have been in the system a >long time), but it also hurts new teachers.
New teachers benefit from higher wages, benefits, and better working conditions secured in a CBA.
>The "last in >first out" policy means young, dynamic, effective teachers >are let go so that old, ineffective, unethical teachers can >enjoy fat paychecks and job security.
This is a tired argument usually made by outsiders to education. Old doesn't necessarily mean ineffective. It may, and quite often does mean that you're capable, experienced, and able to deal with the many, many challenges that come up when working with today's students. Young doesn't necessarily mean dynamic or effective. In fact, it's quite often the opposite. Just like any rookie in any field, you need to learn how to actually do the job in the field. While some teachers come out of the box capable and ready to go, others know a lot of psychological and philosophical nonsense, that doesn't mean much of anything in front of a classroom.
I am an administrator. I hire and fire. However, I was a teacher and still benefit from the many rights and benefits won by the union as an administrator, chief among those are our retirement and health benefits. Now, in my current job, I like the idea of no unions. I like the idea of firing people who are too expensive. It would make my meetings with my boss much easier when we discuss finances. I also like the idea of firing people because they get old and sick. Hey, subs cost money. As an administrator, I also would like to be able to fire people who I don't like. I can think of a few of those..., so, on one hand, I hope your anti-union fever catches fire. I might even give you a job in Illinois..., just pray you don't look at me wrong and I let you keep it..., until you hit about 50, then you're gone! Yeah, you're new world is growing on me...
Wha? You think you have rights? Nope. You have no one to speak for you because the evil union is gone or neutered. Nope, you didn't sign the birthday card going around your school for me, so bye bye... This is the world you are supporting if you're anti-union. Just look around, it exists in the private sector already.
"The teacher's union in Illinois essentially operates like a cartel."
You sound like someone else who comes around here quite a bit. If you're the same person, I've kicked you up and down this board over this issue. Your arguments are basically summed up as: "I can't get a job teaching in Illinois, so everyone who does have a job sucks and the whole system sucks, and I hate you all."
If you are not this individual, I suggest you familiarize yourself with what exactly a cartel is. There is a very large private school sector in Illinois and around the country that is almost completely non-union. You and anyone who despises unions are free to work there as a teacher. Heck, there are a lot of pluses: "trouble" kids are kicked to the curb (one of the reasons private schools do better, they can simply get rid of their problem kids and send them to us), very few, if any special ed kids, and usually more reasonable class sizes. Of course, they don't pay anything, poor if any benefits, and they can fire you whenever they like for whatever reason. But, that's what you want as a union-hater, so, good for you!
Does anyone know of any teacher fairs coming up?
I work in the private sector where my performance and dedication to my job are the gounds on which my future with the company is determined. They can fire me at any time, and I can leave at any time. I do not need to pay protection money to a union to keep my job: I am qualified.
Ecucation reform in the United States starts with the unions...See MoreI work in the private sector where my performance and dedication to my job are the gounds on which my future with the company is determined. They can fire me at any time, and I can leave at any time. I do not need to pay protection money to a union to keep my job: I am qualified.
Ecucation reform in the United States starts with the unions. Many studies have empirically concluded that in union states, teacher's strikes are routine (and that hurts only the children), student achievement is low, etc. Washington D.C. is a prime example where unions consistently blocked reform and improvement of the system despite only 8% of 8th graders being at grade-level in math.
Now the unions are not the only problem: administration and fiscal waste are the other big issues. Nevertheless, as "Waiting for Superman" shows us, unions are the #1 problem.
How is the "last in first out" policy even remotely defensible? To people who are not teachers, the policy is absurd: Joe gets to keep his job, even though he is useless, because he has been here a long time. Please.
To start competing with the rest of the world, and to start improving the minds and futures of our children, we have to make sure people like you don't get into a classroom or even a school. You work for the taxpayer, not the union, not even the school. If it were not for people like me paying a lot of taxes, you would be waiting tables.
I know I'm troll feeding and arguing with an individual who clearly has an agenda, but I'm so sick of hearing the comparisons between education and the private sector. Stop it. Stop it right now. Don't be so myopic. It's not the same thing. You absolutely cannot compare the two. Why you ask? Money. Money, money, money. In the private sector your ul...See MoreI know I'm troll feeding and arguing with an individual who clearly has an agenda, but I'm so sick of hearing the comparisons between education and the private sector. Stop it. Stop it right now. Don't be so myopic. It's not the same thing. You absolutely cannot compare the two. Why you ask? Money. Money, money, money. In the private sector your ultimate end is to make money. To make money for yourself, to make money for your boss, to make money for your company. A boss can deal with any employee as long as he or she thinks that the worker is making them money and making money for the company. As long as your compensation is lower than your real or perceived monetary value to the company, you're worth it.
In education, this is not the end. The stakes are not about money. The product of my work is not money, but about the development and fostering of the next generation of citizens of this country. The justification of employment is not so black and white as "Does Employee X make money for the company?" A teacher should be judged as to whether they truly are developing and fostering and properly educating the next generation of citizens of this country. However, the actual evaluation is very difficult to accomplish and it is nearly impossible to monetarily evaluate the effectiveness of an educator. Budget crunches, personality differences, wearing the wrong colored tie, looking at someone funny, one rogue parent, and a student who doesn't like a grade, would all be common causes for dismissal for teachers if there were not unions.
apples and oranges
Over 40 certified staff were non-renewed last night. I checked out the staffs of each building in the district, and that comes to nearly 25% of certified staff being let go. Granted, they will hire some back (I hope), but next year is going to be rough! Karen
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