Union, good for me

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Teacher Unions Chatboard

Union, good for me

by paula

Jun 11, 2011

I am an older teacher. I have been on our campus since it opened 14 years ago. I have been teaching in my district for 22 years. I am at the top of my salary schedule. I started teaching late, so I am "older", no doubt about it.

The younger, more energetic teachers are losing their positions due to budget cutbacks, losing 20-1, etc.

I am feeling the pressure (I don't intend to give into it) that I am taking their job. I also am feeling pressure from some "middle" aged teachers that our school should go charter. I know that would make me vulnerable to cut-backs.

I heard a week or so ago that young teachers should have the jobs because they deserve them. They are trying to do good for the community, children, etc.

The union is the only part of education that recognizes that I went into teaching to make a difference. I have stayed in teaching more than 5 years, and I do care about kids and the community. What about being "older" makes my desire to teac...See More

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anon Your idea wouldn't work, first of all because unions are supposed to represent ALL teachers, not pick and choose. Second and most important, the "lousy" teachers invariably become principals, other administrators, or work in the administrative building to get as far away from children as possible.

In theory, unions are a good idea, but in...See MoreYour idea wouldn't work, first of all because unions are supposed to represent ALL teachers, not pick and choose. Second and most important, the "lousy" teachers invariably become principals, other administrators, or work in the administrative building to get as far away from children as possible.

In theory, unions are a good idea, but in education, they don't act as real unions but as mere subsidiaries of the school districts. Any teacher wrongfully terminated will tell you the truth about unions and school districts. It isn't a pretty picture.

On 10/26/11, In general, I'm a big union supporter wrote: > But I do believe that the FULL protection of the union should kick in > with the very first dues payment. In our district, non-tenured teachers > pay the same dues as everybody else, but if they have a problem, here's > the union: "Oops! Sorry, you don't have tenure. Nothing we can do." > > I also think it should be incumbent upon the unions to identify the > really lousiest of the lousy teachers and freaking KICK THEM OUT OF THE > UNION! That would be in everybody's best interest, as it would benefit > the students, save the unions a lot of wasted time and energy trying to > protect the schlubbos, AND give the unions a LOT more credibility with > school officials and the public at large. > > > On 10/26/11, janss wrote: >> Yes, unions are needed. Arizona is a right to work state and right >> now the schools are trying to lay off the teachers at the high end >> of the payscale and replace them with teachers who are at the bottom >> of the payscale. In AZ I don't have a union and I am expected to go >> in nights and weekends without pay to do extra duty. We are paid >> very low salaries to begin with and could really use those nights >> and weekends earning extra money to feed our families and keep a >> roof over our head. Most teachers don't even earn enough to pay the >> hefty student loans on a monthly basis and keep a roof over their >> heads. There are so many reasons why unions are a must in this >> country right now. Any everyone is right. If you are a veteran >> teacher people think you are a demon collecting a huge salary and >> giving nothing back. I have seen so many veterans that are superb >> teachers being demoralized and put on improvement plans by >> administrators with 2 or 3 years of experience at best. Unions are >> necessary. Someone has to protect us. >> >> On 10/13/11, anon wrote: >>> On 10/11/11, Aren't the younger teachers in the same union as >>> you? wrote: >>>> Why isn't the union preventing those younger, energetic >>>> teachers from losing their positions? >>>> >>>> BTW, who's pressuring you about "taking a job" from anybody >>>> else? That's loony. >>> >>> These teachers probably aren't tenured, and districts around the >>> country are demonizing veteran teachers, trying to force them to >>> quit or resign, just so they can get these cheap bimbos. They >>> also want to gut tenure for the same reason. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 6/11/11, paula wrote: >>>>> I am an older teacher. I have been on our campus since it >>>>> opened 14 years ago. I have been teaching in my district >>>>> for 22 years. I am at the top of my salary schedule. I >>>>> started teaching late, so I am "older", no doubt about it. >>>>> >>>>> The younger, more energetic teachers are losing their >>>>> positions due to budget cutbacks, losing 20-1, etc. >>>>> >>>>> I am feeling the pressure (I don't intend to give into it) >>>>> that I am taking their job. I also am feeling pressure from >>>>> some "middle" aged teachers that our school should go >>>>> charter. I know that would make me vulnerable to cut-backs. >>>>> >>>>> I heard a week or so ago that young teachers should have the >>>>> jobs because they deserve them. They are trying to do good >>>>> for the community, children, etc. >>>>> >>>>> The union is the only part of education that recognizes that >>>>> I went into teaching to make a difference. I have stayed in >>>>> teaching more than 5 years, and I do care about kids and the >>>>> community. What about being "older" makes my desire to >>>>> teach any less than a young teacher just starting out? >>>>>

Oct 27, 2011

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Unions do occasionally revoke people's membership I've never heard of it happening in a teachers' union, though. I know that in some of the building industry unions, if a member takes a job on a non-union site, or crosses a picket line, that person is indeed at risk of being booted out of the union altogether.

And if the teachers' unions represent all members, why would members be having ...See MoreI've never heard of it happening in a teachers' union, though. I know that in some of the building industry unions, if a member takes a job on a non-union site, or crosses a picket line, that person is indeed at risk of being booted out of the union altogether.

And if the teachers' unions represent all members, why would members be having so much trouble with wrongful termination? That's my point...if the unions were more proactive about getting rid of their own bad apples, maybe they'd have more clout when it comes to standing up for good teachers who ARE mistreated at work. Representing everybody, including those members who have no business teaching at all, rather undercuts their legitimacy.

On 10/27/11, anon wrote: > Your idea wouldn't work, first of all because unions are supposed to > represent ALL teachers, not pick and choose. Second and most important, > the "lousy" teachers invariably become principals, other administrators, > or work in the administrative building to get as far away from children > as possible. > > In theory, unions are a good idea, but in education, they don't act as > real unions but as mere subsidiaries of the school districts. Any > teacher wrongfully terminated will tell you the truth about unions and > school districts. It isn't a pretty picture. > > > On 10/26/11, In general, I'm a big union supporter wrote: >> But I do believe that the FULL protection of the union should kick in >> with the very first dues payment. In our district, non-tenured teachers >> pay the same dues as everybody else, but if they have a problem, here's >> the union: "Oops! Sorry, you don't have tenure. Nothing we can do." >> >> I also think it should be incumbent upon the unions to identify the >> really lousiest of the lousy teachers and freaking KICK THEM OUT OF THE >> UNION! That would be in everybody's best interest, as it would benefit >> the students, save the unions a lot of wasted time and energy trying to >> protect the schlubbos, AND give the unions a LOT more credibility with >> school officials and the public at large. >> >> >> On 10/26/11, janss wrote: >>> Yes, unions are needed. Arizona is a right to work state and right >>> now the schools are trying to lay off the teachers at the high end >>> of the payscale and replace them with teachers who are at the bottom >>> of the payscale. In AZ I don't have a union and I am expected to go >>> in nights and weekends without pay to do extra duty. We are paid >>> very low salaries to begin with and could really use those nights >>> and weekends earning extra money to feed our families and keep a >>> roof over our head. Most teachers don't even earn enough to pay the >>> hefty student loans on a monthly basis and keep a roof over their >>> heads. There are so many reasons why unions are a must in this >>> country right now. Any everyone is right. If you are a veteran >>> teacher people think you are a demon collecting a huge salary and >>> giving nothing back. I have seen so many veterans that are superb >>> teachers being demoralized and put on improvement plans by >>> administrators with 2 or 3 years of experience at best. Unions are >>> necessary. Someone has to protect us. >>> >>> On 10/13/11, anon wrote: >>>> On 10/11/11, Aren't the younger teachers in the same union as >>>> you? wrote: >>>>> Why isn't the union preventing those younger, energetic >>>>> teachers from losing their positions? >>>>> >>>>> BTW, who's pressuring you about "taking a job" from anybody >>>>> else? That's loony. >>>> >>>> These teachers probably aren't tenured, and districts around the >>>> country are demonizing veteran teachers, trying to force them to >>>> quit or resign, just so they can get these cheap bimbos. They >>>> also want to gut tenure for the same reason. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 6/11/11, paula wrote: >>>>>> I am an older teacher. I have been on our campus since it >>>>>> opened 14 years ago. I have been teaching in my district >>>>>> for 22 years. I am at the top of my salary schedule. I >>>>>> started teaching late, so I am "older", no doubt about it. >>>>>> >>>>>> The younger, more energetic teachers are losing their >>>>>> positions due to budget cutbacks, losing 20-1, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am feeling the pressure (I don't intend to give into it) >>>>>> that I am taking their job. I also am feeling pressure from >>>>>> some "middle" aged teachers that our school should go >>>>>> charter. I know that would make me vulnerable to cut-backs. >>>>>> >>>>>> I heard a week or so ago that young teachers should have the >>>>>> jobs because they deserve them. They are trying to do good >>>>>> for the community, children, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> The union is the only part of education that recognizes that >>>>>> I went into teaching to make a difference. I have stayed in >>>>>> teaching more than 5 years, and I do care about kids and the >>>>>> community. What about being "older" makes my desire to >>>>>> teach any less than a young teacher just starting out? >>>>>>

Oct 27, 2011

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anon I think you will find very few "bad apples" in education, for most of them end up with cushy jobs outside of the classroom. Besides, who determines who is a "bad apple," apart from those who commit crimes? The principal, the person least fit to be evaluating teachers.

On 10/27/11, Unions do occasionally revoke people's membership wrote: &...See MoreI think you will find very few "bad apples" in education, for most of them end up with cushy jobs outside of the classroom. Besides, who determines who is a "bad apple," apart from those who commit crimes? The principal, the person least fit to be evaluating teachers.

On 10/27/11, Unions do occasionally revoke people's membership wrote: > I've never heard of it happening in a teachers' union, > though. I know that in > some of the building industry unions, if a member takes > a job on a non-union site, or crosses a picket line, > that person is indeed at risk of being booted out of > the union altogether. > > And if the teachers' unions represent all members, why > would members be having so much trouble with wrongful > termination? That's my point...if the unions were more > proactive about getting rid of their own bad apples, > maybe they'd have more clout when it comes to standing > up for good teachers who ARE mistreated at work. > Representing everybody, including those members who > have no business teaching at all, rather undercuts > their legitimacy. > > > On 10/27/11, anon wrote: >> Your idea wouldn't work, first of all because unions >> are supposed to represent ALL teachers, not pick and >> choose. Second and most important, the >> "lousy" teachers invariably become >> principals, other administrators, or work in the >> administrative building to get as far away from >> children as possible. >> >> In theory, unions are a good idea, but in education, >> they don't act as real unions but as mere >> subsidiaries of the school districts. Any teacher >> wrongfully terminated will tell you the truth about >> unions and school districts. It isn't a pretty >> picture. >> >> >> On 10/26/11, In general, I'm a big union supporter wrote: >>> But I do believe that the FULL protection of the >>> union should kick in with the very first dues >>> payment. In our district, non-tenured teachers pay >>> the same dues as everybody else, but if they have a >>> problem, here's the union: "Oops! Sorry, you >>> don't have tenure. Nothing we can do." >>> >>> I also think it should be incumbent upon the unions >>> to identify the really lousiest of the lousy >>> teachers and freaking KICK THEM OUT OF THE UNION! >>> That would be in everybody's best interest, as it >>> would benefit the students, save the unions a lot >>> of wasted time and energy trying to protect the >>> schlubbos, AND give the unions a LOT more >>> credibility with school officials and the public at >>> large. >>> >>> >>> On 10/26/11, janss wrote: >>>> Yes, unions are needed. Arizona is a right to >>>> work state and right now the schools are trying >>>> to lay off the teachers at the high end of the >>>> payscale and replace them with teachers who are >>>> at the bottom of the payscale. In AZ I don't have >>>> a union and I am expected to go in nights and >>>> weekends without pay to do extra duty. We are >>>> paid very low salaries to begin with and could >>>> really use those nights and weekends earning >>>> extra money to feed our families and keep a roof >>>> over our head. Most teachers don't even earn >>>> enough to pay the hefty student loans on a >>>> monthly basis and keep a roof over their heads. >>>> There are so many reasons why unions are a must >>>> in this country right now. Any everyone is right. >>>> If you are a veteran teacher people think you are >>>> a demon collecting a huge salary and giving >>>> nothing back. I have seen so many veterans that >>>> are superb teachers being demoralized and put on >>>> improvement plans by administrators with 2 or 3 >>>> years of experience at best. Unions are >>>> necessary. Someone has to protect us. >>>> >>>> On 10/13/11, anon wrote: >>>>> On 10/11/11, Aren't the younger teachers in the >>>>> same union as you? wrote: >>>>>> Why isn't the union preventing those younger, >>>>>> energetic teachers from losing their >>>>>> positions? >>>>>> >>>>>> BTW, who's pressuring you about "taking >>>>>> a job" from anybody else? That's loony. >>>>> >>>>> These teachers probably aren't tenured, and >>>>> districts around the country are demonizing >>>>> veteran teachers, trying to force them to quit >>>>> or resign, just so they can get these cheap >>>>> bimbos. They also want to gut tenure for the >>>>> same reason. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 6/11/11, paula wrote: >>>>>>> I am an older teacher. I have been on our >>>>>>> campus since it opened 14 years ago. I have >>>>>>> been teaching in my district for 22 years. >>>>>>> I am at the top of my salary schedule. I >>>>>>> started teaching late, so I am >>>>>>> "older", no doubt about it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The younger, more energetic teachers are >>>>>>> losing their positions due to budget >>>>>>> cutbacks, losing 20-1, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am feeling the pressure (I don't intend >>>>>>> to give into it) that I am taking their >>>>>>> job. I also am feeling pressure from some >>>>>>> "middle" aged teachers that our >>>>>>> school should go charter. I know that would >>>>>>> make me vulnerable to cut-backs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I heard a week or so ago that young >>>>>>> teachers should have the jobs because they >>>>>>> deserve them. They are trying to do good >>>>>>> for the community, children, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The union is the only part of education >>>>>>> that recognizes that I went into teaching >>>>>>> to make a difference. I have stayed in >>>>>>> teaching more than 5 years, and I do care >>>>>>> about kids and the community. What about >>>>>>> being "older" makes my desire to >>>>>>> teach any less than a young teacher just >>>>>>> starting out? >>>>>>>

Oct 28, 2011

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Reality Wow, you want the UNION to do a LOT while collecting no dues, eh? Tenure is one thing, UNION membership is another. IN a real union (one with collective bargaining rights!) members have a variety of benefits. Whether they are tenured or not. Of course the scope and effectiveness of this varies local to local. But those newbie teachers have a vote a...See More

Aug 3, 2012

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anon "Competence" has nothing to do with it in terms of getting rid of teachers. In fact, administrative law is so full of holes principals can get rid of anybody they want. Districts can and do manipulate the legal process, and teachers have NO recourse whatsoever.

"Tenure" is better than nothing, but let's not pretend teachers have any real ...See More"Competence" has nothing to do with it in terms of getting rid of teachers. In fact, administrative law is so full of holes principals can get rid of anybody they want. Districts can and do manipulate the legal process, and teachers have NO recourse whatsoever.

"Tenure" is better than nothing, but let's not pretend teachers have any real rights at all in the workplace. They don't. "Tenure," which isn't real tenure anyway but merely civil service protections identical to what police and fire receive, actually helps school districts by reducing the number of civil suits against them as it puts a brake on principals' worst impulses. However, once a principal or other administrator targets a teacher, it is about impossible to prevail.

Meanwhile, it is virtually impossible to fire a principal or other administrator in this country.

On 8/03/12, Reality wrote: > > Wow, you want the UNION to do a LOT while collecting no dues, eh? > Tenure is one thing, UNION membership is another. > IN a real union (one with collective bargaining rights!) members have a > variety of benefits. Whether they are tenured or not. > Of course the scope and effectiveness of this varies local to local. > But those newbie teachers have a vote at the union, same as the veterans. > And hopefully are working WITH the union, not just sitting back expecting > some dues paid to take care of their every concern throughout their career. > It is silly IMO to think that a UNION should be in the job of observing > and rating teachers, isn't that the job of the administration. Unions are > busy enough negotiating contracts, filing grievences, and keeping an eye > on those administrators who may or may not be doing their job of > observing, counseling, providing improvement plans when necessary, and > also giving those unsat ratings to people who deserve to get one and get > out! > Of course they can still get rid of the incompetent after they have > tenure, it is just a bit more involved. But read your tenure laws, and > also the Union bylaws. > > > > On 10/26/11, In general, I'm a big union supporter wrote: >> But I do believe that the FULL protection of the union should kick in >> with the very first dues payment. In our district, non-tenured teachers >> pay the same dues as everybody else, but if they have a problem, here's >> the union: "Oops! Sorry, you don't have tenure. Nothing we can do." >> >> I also think it should be incumbent upon the unions to identify the >> really lousiest of the lousy teachers and freaking KICK THEM OUT OF THE >> UNION! That would be in everybody's best interest, as it would benefit >> the students, save the unions a lot of wasted time and energy trying to >> protect the schlubbos, AND give the unions a LOT more credibility with >> school officials and the public at large. >>

Aug 6, 2012

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