Touchy subject: Teacher "stipends" for student travel

by Anonymous

Mar 10, 2010

Hello all,

Thank you all, in advance, for your input on this issue. First, a little background: I work for an Educational Tour company that believes in putting the teachers and students first by developing curriculum based travel opportunities at an affordable price and I was an educator for many years before entering the educational travel industry. We believe in "reasonable" reimbursement amounts for a teacher's time in organizing and leading our trips and I'd just like to hear what the opinion of the group is on what would be your definition of "reasonable".

The problem, as we see it, is that this reimbursement practice has been abused within our industry to, in effect, "buy" the business from a teacher and prevent them from entertaining competitive offers. This, of course, inflates the cost of the trip to the families and prevents some students from participating in what could have been an excellent educational opportunity.

Let's use the scenario of a tea...See More

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Trish I totally agree with you on some of this. I have TD'ed many a group! Our cash backs though are exactly that - cash, not those food court vouchers! We only use those if a teacher requests it. The cash works well in areas they can be dropped off, like some of the areas in Boston, or the LA Farmers Market, Pikes Place Market, the Smithsonians, things ...See MoreI totally agree with you on some of this. I have TD'ed many a group! Our cash backs though are exactly that - cash, not those food court vouchers! We only use those if a teacher requests it. The cash works well in areas they can be dropped off, like some of the areas in Boston, or the LA Farmers Market, Pikes Place Market, the Smithsonians, things like that. But we stilll have alot of clients that want a group meal planned for dinner. soemtimes with the restaurants you have to take the time they give you! And yes sometimes it can not be optimum time, but that is the way it is!

On 5/13/10, False wrote: > Since I am the TD, I can suggest good places to eat > rather than the food > courts. I have developed relationships with various > types of restaurants and farmers markets in Europe and > the US. There are good chains, farmers' markets,and > other restaurants where the group can stay together and > that are not overrun with tons of screaming kids. With > what you call, 'cash backs', the students are not > limited to the silly menus on meal vouchers (which are > given out by most tour companies at food courts) and > they can order what they want. Most of the US food > court meals are not all that healthy and the kids end > up at either the pizza place or McDonald's. Try to get > some milk, juice, or water on a food court meal > voucher! Also, not having a set time for a meal is > useful when you are running a trip with lots of > appointments. Sometimes I think the itineraries are set > more for meals than for the sights and I have to cut > short a visit to get to a yeechy group meal squeezed > between other groups and it can be stressful. > Additionally, I have been given times for lunch that > are either a couple of hours after breakfast or a > couple of hours before dinner. > > However, most of my groups break up into smaller ones > with a chaperone at meal time, especially if they are > visiting a museum or a historic/quaint area. > > On 5/12/10, Trish wrote: >> Thank-you!!Over 90% of our customers want things like >> tips included. They simply do not want to have to >> worry about it!And they trust us to do the right >> thing. We pay our TD's very well and the tips are >> always the correct amounts. That is why we have top >> guides that have been with us for years. On the meal >> note, yes sometimes we do the "cash backs" >> so the kids can have a choice in where to go. But >> here is something to think about. More often than >> not, unless you are at a food court, the group wants >> to stay together and they find that not all places to >> eat can take all of them together, so that have to >> split up. Some teachers do not like this scenario So >> that is one advantage to a group meal. >> >> >> >> On 5/12/10, False wrote: >>> Rhoda, I think you work for EF or you are a teacher >>> getting paid by them. >>> >>> It seems the tour companies add a lot of last >>> minute fees on the parents, which they were >>> unprepared for. Then the parents have to >>> guesstimate how much money to give their children >>> to cover meals, tips, souvenirs, airport fees, >>> transportation, and some admissions. Sometimes the >>> tour companies word their descriptions in the >>> brochures to lead teachers, parents, and students >>> to believe something is included that is not and >>> they take it out on the guide. On one itinerary we >>> stay at a hotel that is over 20 kilometers from >> anything >>> and the group needs to pay extra if they want to >>> get into town >> and >>> back to do something after we check in at 3:00 PM. >>> So I have to deal with these complaints on tour all >>> the time. >>> >>> Budgeting for kids is difficult to begin with and >>> many run out of money for reasons that are not >>> always their fault. On several of my trips (I'm an >>> ITMI certified TD), the students actually ran out >>> of money and did not have enough to tip me or the >>> driver so it had nothing to do with the quality of >>> the service. Some didn't have enough for the >>> departure fees or baggage fees at the airport and >>> had to call their parents to load more money on >>> their ATM cards. Yo! We're dealing with kids here >>> and some have never had as much money in their >>> hands before. >>> >>> Some tour companies in the US actually give out >>> cash to the students for meals so there is >>> flexibility and pay for all the luggage and >>> departure fees on a company credit card. The >>> company takes care of the tour guides and drivers >>> and therefore have better guides and drivers who >>> stay with the company. >>> >>> I also agree that the so-called stipends are >>> actually ripping-off the parents and students. I >>> was just made aware of that recently by a teacher >>> that was boasting on how much he was getting paid. >>> I couldn't believe it. Do you have any idea how >>> much better the tour could be if the teachers >>> didn't take this money? Trish may have a point that >>> they are illegal. >>> >>> So Rhoda, you are saying that customers go for the >>> cheaper price and you give one because it makes you >>> more competitive, but it really isn't cheaper when >>> you have all these last minute price increases and >>> other fees that might appear in the field and then >>> the money doesn't go to those who work the trip >>> when the money runs out or due to greedy teachers. >>> I don't think it's a good way to do business when >>> you're dealing with kids. I think that it's better >>> to have everything taken care of in advance. It's >>> far more honest and less stressful for all. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/09/10, Rhoda Lott wrote: >>>> Trish, this idea of having "all >>>> included" should be seen from the right >>>> point of view. >>>> >>>> Whatever you include must be eventually paid by >>>> the client because it has a cost. If you sell a >>>> tour with all meals included you will pay a >>>> certain amount, if you do not include them the >>>> cost is less for the travelers but travelers have >>>> to add that cost themselves eventually. Which can >>>> be good because you have a choice of eating as >>>> you like according to your budget. If Tour >>>> Operators pay TD well and include tips, where do >>>> you think money is coming from? From their income >>>> or your pockets? I'd rather have the freedom of >>>> choosing what/if/how much I want to spend >>>> according to the guidelines and according to the >>>> degree of my group's satisfaction. >>>> >>>> Also note that customers today go for the >>>> cheapest price. If you include too much you risk >>>> not to be competitive unless you lower the >>>> quality of service. There is nothing like a free >>>> meal, remember! Rhoda >>>> >>>> On 5/06/10, Trish wrote: >>>>> Not to mention that many of these cash stipends >>>>> are ILLEGAL in most states and should be >>>>> reported. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On the tipping the TD note. There are a few >>>>> good travel companies that pay tour directors >>>>> very well and include the tip so that the >>>>> teachers do not have to worry about it.

May 13, 2010

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False We've gotten off topic concerning the stipends for teachers and perhaps there should be a thread about best ways and places to feed a group.

However, I was talking about lunches. Normally there's a group breakfast at the hotel and a sit-down dinner. Sometimes I've had a sit down lunch at a nice restaurant and a 'cash back' dinner the same...See MoreWe've gotten off topic concerning the stipends for teachers and perhaps there should be a thread about best ways and places to feed a group.

However, I was talking about lunches. Normally there's a group breakfast at the hotel and a sit-down dinner. Sometimes I've had a sit down lunch at a nice restaurant and a 'cash back' dinner the same day. I advocate cash for only one meal a day.

On 5/13/10, Trish wrote: > I totally agree with you on some of this. I have TD'ed > many a group! Our cash backs though are exactly that - > cash, not those food court vouchers! We only use those if > a teacher requests it. The cash works well in areas they > can be dropped off, like some of the areas in Boston, or > the LA Farmers Market, Pikes Place Market, the > Smithsonians, things like that. But we stilll have alot of > clients that want a group meal planned for dinner. > soemtimes with the restaurants you have to take the time > they give you! And yes sometimes it can not be optimum > time, but that is the way it is! > > > On 5/13/10, False wrote: >> Since I am the TD, I can suggest good places to eat >> rather than the food >> courts. I have developed relationships with various >> types of restaurants and farmers markets in Europe and >> the US. There are good chains, farmers' markets,and >> other restaurants where the group can stay together and >> that are not overrun with tons of screaming kids. With >> what you call, 'cash backs', the students are not >> limited to the silly menus on meal vouchers (which are >> given out by most tour companies at food courts) and >> they can order what they want. Most of the US food >> court meals are not all that healthy and the kids end >> up at either the pizza place or McDonald's. Try to get >> some milk, juice, or water on a food court meal >> voucher! Also, not having a set time for a meal is >> useful when you are running a trip with lots of >> appointments. Sometimes I think the itineraries are set >> more for meals than for the sights and I have to cut >> short a visit to get to a yeechy group meal squeezed >> between other groups and it can be stressful. >> Additionally, I have been given times for lunch that >> are either a couple of hours after breakfast or a >> couple of hours before dinner. >> >> However, most of my groups break up into smaller ones >> with a chaperone at meal time, especially if they are >> visiting a museum or a historic/quaint area. >> >> On 5/12/10, Trish wrote: >>> Thank-you!!Over 90% of our customers want things like >>> tips included. They simply do not want to have to >>> worry about it!And they trust us to do the right >>> thing. We pay our TD's very well and the tips are >>> always the correct amounts. That is why we have top >>> guides that have been with us for years. On the meal >>> note, yes sometimes we do the "cash backs" >>> so the kids can have a choice in where to go. But >>> here is something to think about. More often than >>> not, unless you are at a food court, the group wants >>> to stay together and they find that not all places to >>> eat can take all of them together, so that have to >>> split up. Some teachers do not like this scenario So >>> that is one advantage to a group meal. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/12/10, False wrote: >>>> Rhoda, I think you work for EF or you are a teacher >>>> getting paid by them. >>>> >>>> It seems the tour companies add a lot of last >>>> minute fees on the parents, which they were >>>> unprepared for. Then the parents have to >>>> guesstimate how much money to give their children >>>> to cover meals, tips, souvenirs, airport fees, >>>> transportation, and some admissions. Sometimes the >>>> tour companies word their descriptions in the >>>> brochures to lead teachers, parents, and students >>>> to believe something is included that is not and >>>> they take it out on the guide. On one itinerary we >>>> stay at a hotel that is over 20 kilometers from >>> anything >>>> and the group needs to pay extra if they want to >>>> get into town >>> and >>>> back to do something after we check in at 3:00 PM. >>>> So I have to deal with these complaints on tour all >>>> the time. >>>> >>>> Budgeting for kids is difficult to begin with and >>>> many run out of money for reasons that are not >>>> always their fault. On several of my trips (I'm an >>>> ITMI certified TD), the students actually ran out >>>> of money and did not have enough to tip me or the >>>> driver so it had nothing to do with the quality of >>>> the service. Some didn't have enough for the >>>> departure fees or baggage fees at the airport and >>>> had to call their parents to load more money on >>>> their ATM cards. Yo! We're dealing with kids here >>>> and some have never had as much money in their >>>> hands before. >>>> >>>> Some tour companies in the US actually give out >>>> cash to the students for meals so there is >>>> flexibility and pay for all the luggage and >>>> departure fees on a company credit card. The >>>> company takes care of the tour guides and drivers >>>> and therefore have better guides and drivers who >>>> stay with the company. >>>> >>>> I also agree that the so-called stipends are >>>> actually ripping-off the parents and students. I >>>> was just made aware of that recently by a teacher >>>> that was boasting on how much he was getting paid. >>>> I couldn't believe it. Do you have any idea how >>>> much better the tour could be if the teachers >>>> didn't take this money? Trish may have a point that >>>> they are illegal. >>>> >>>> So Rhoda, you are saying that customers go for the >>>> cheaper price and you give one because it makes you >>>> more competitive, but it really isn't cheaper when >>>> you have all these last minute price increases and >>>> other fees that might appear in the field and then >>>> the money doesn't go to those who work the trip >>>> when the money runs out or due to greedy teachers. >>>> I don't think it's a good way to do business when >>>> you're dealing with kids. I think that it's better >>>> to have everything taken care of in advance. It's >>>> far more honest and less stressful for all. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/09/10, Rhoda Lott wrote: >>>>> Trish, this idea of having "all >>>>> included" should be seen from the right >>>>> point of view. >>>>> >>>>> Whatever you include must be eventually paid by >>>>> the client because it has a cost. If you sell a >>>>> tour with all meals included you will pay a >>>>> certain amount, if you do not include them the >>>>> cost is less for the travelers but travelers have >>>>> to add that cost themselves eventually. Which can >>>>> be good because you have a choice of eating as >>>>> you like according to your budget. If Tour >>>>> Operators pay TD well and include tips, where do >>>>> you think money is coming from? From their income >>>>> or your pockets? I'd rather have the freedom of >>>>> choosing what/if/how much I want to spend >>>>> according to the guidelines and according to the >>>>> degree of my group's satisfaction. >>>>> >>>>> Also note that customers today go for the >>>>> cheapest price. If you include too much you risk >>>>> not to be competitive unless you lower the >>>>> quality of service. There is nothing like a free >>>>> meal, remember! Rhoda >>>>> >>>>> On 5/06/10, Trish wrote: >>>>>> Not to mention that many of these cash stipends >>>>>> are ILLEGAL in most states and should be >>>>>> reported. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On the tipping the TD note. There are a few >>>>>> good travel companies that pay tour directors >>>>>> very well and include the tip so that the >>>>>> teachers do not have to worry about it.

May 13, 2010

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tenderheart Teacher stipends and free places are becoming hot topics in many states. Teachers should really take the time to read updated laws in their states regarding this issues. Most teachers, and even most school systems, do not realize they may be involved in a professional ethics violation by accepting stipends or free places. In my school system in Ala...See MoreTeacher stipends and free places are becoming hot topics in many states. Teachers should really take the time to read updated laws in their states regarding this issues. Most teachers, and even most school systems, do not realize they may be involved in a professional ethics violation by accepting stipends or free places. In my school system in Alabama, we recently hired a new Director of Finance. He sent all teachers in our district a memo, informing us about this issue. According to the law, it is an ethical violation for a teacher to accept a free spot or accept any stipend for taking students on a school-sponsored trip. Because of this, most teachers I know are still planning trips, but are planning them without "official" school approval. This law includes overseas trips, as well as student tours to places such as Washington, D.C.

I see both sides of this issue. As a teacher, I realize how hard it is to plan a trip of such a huge magnitude. It takes time and effort, and most tour companies like EF, offer a free place (or the monetary equivalent) for every six places paid for. If teachers plan and advertise this trip at school, and have the trip approved officially by the board of education, then technically they are committing an ethics violation. This is true in most states. I would check with someone at your State Dept. of Education before getting involved in this.

On 5/13/10, False wrote: > We've gotten off topic concerning the stipends for teachers and > perhaps there should be a thread about best ways and places to > feed a group. > > However, I was talking about lunches. Normally there's a group > breakfast at the hotel and a sit-down dinner. Sometimes I've had > a sit down lunch at a nice restaurant and a 'cash back' dinner > the same day. I advocate cash for only one meal a day. > > On 5/13/10, Trish wrote: >> I totally agree with you on some of this. I have TD'ed >> many a group! Our cash backs though are exactly that - >> cash, not those food court vouchers! We only use those if >> a teacher requests it. The cash works well in areas they >> can be dropped off, like some of the areas in Boston, or >> the LA Farmers Market, Pikes Place Market, the >> Smithsonians, things like that. But we stilll have alot of >> clients that want a group meal planned for dinner. >> soemtimes with the restaurants you have to take the time >> they give you! And yes sometimes it can not be optimum >> time, but that is the way it is! >> >> >> On 5/13/10, False wrote: >>> Since I am the TD, I can suggest good places to eat >>> rather than the food >>> courts. I have developed relationships with various >>> types of restaurants and farmers markets in Europe and >>> the US. There are good chains, farmers' markets,and >>> other restaurants where the group can stay together and >>> that are not overrun with tons of screaming kids. With >>> what you call, 'cash backs', the students are not >>> limited to the silly menus on meal vouchers (which are >>> given out by most tour companies at food courts) and >>> they can order what they want. Most of the US food >>> court meals are not all that healthy and the kids end >>> up at either the pizza place or McDonald's. Try to get >>> some milk, juice, or water on a food court meal >>> voucher! Also, not having a set time for a meal is >>> useful when you are running a trip with lots of >>> appointments. Sometimes I think the itineraries are set >>> more for meals than for the sights and I have to cut >>> short a visit to get to a yeechy group meal squeezed >>> between other groups and it can be stressful. >>> Additionally, I have been given times for lunch that >>> are either a couple of hours after breakfast or a >>> couple of hours before dinner. >>> >>> However, most of my groups break up into smaller ones >>> with a chaperone at meal time, especially if they are >>> visiting a museum or a historic/quaint area. >>> >>> On 5/12/10, Trish wrote: >>>> Thank-you!!Over 90% of our customers want things like >>>> tips included. They simply do not want to have to >>>> worry about it!And they trust us to do the right >>>> thing. We pay our TD's very well and the tips are >>>> always the correct amounts. That is why we have top >>>> guides that have been with us for years. On the meal >>>> note, yes sometimes we do the "cash backs" >>>> so the kids can have a choice in where to go. But >>>> here is something to think about. More often than >>>> not, unless you are at a food court, the group wants >>>> to stay together and they find that not all places to >>>> eat can take all of them together, so that have to >>>> split up. Some teachers do not like this scenario So >>>> that is one advantage to a group meal. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/12/10, False wrote: >>>>> Rhoda, I think you work for EF or you are a teacher >>>>> getting paid by them. >>>>> >>>>> It seems the tour companies add a lot of last >>>>> minute fees on the parents, which they were >>>>> unprepared for. Then the parents have to >>>>> guesstimate how much money to give their children >>>>> to cover meals, tips, souvenirs, airport fees, >>>>> transportation, and some admissions. Sometimes the >>>>> tour companies word their descriptions in the >>>>> brochures to lead teachers, parents, and students >>>>> to believe something is included that is not and >>>>> they take it out on the guide. On one itinerary we >>>>> stay at a hotel that is over 20 kilometers from >>>> anything >>>>> and the group needs to pay extra if they want to >>>>> get into town >>>> and >>>>> back to do something after we check in at 3:00 PM. >>>>> So I have to deal with these complaints on tour all >>>>> the time. >>>>> >>>>> Budgeting for kids is difficult to begin with and >>>>> many run out of money for reasons that are not >>>>> always their fault. On several of my trips (I'm an >>>>> ITMI certified TD), the students actually ran out >>>>> of money and did not have enough to tip me or the >>>>> driver so it had nothing to do with the quality of >>>>> the service. Some didn't have enough for the >>>>> departure fees or baggage fees at the airport and >>>>> had to call their parents to load more money on >>>>> their ATM cards. Yo! We're dealing with kids here >>>>> and some have never had as much money in their >>>>> hands before. >>>>> >>>>> Some tour companies in the US actually give out >>>>> cash to the students for meals so there is >>>>> flexibility and pay for all the luggage and >>>>> departure fees on a company credit card. The >>>>> company takes care of the tour guides and drivers >>>>> and therefore have better guides and drivers who >>>>> stay with the company. >>>>> >>>>> I also agree that the so-called stipends are >>>>> actually ripping-off the parents and students. I >>>>> was just made aware of that recently by a teacher >>>>> that was boasting on how much he was getting paid. >>>>> I couldn't believe it. Do you have any idea how >>>>> much better the tour could be if the teachers >>>>> didn't take this money? Trish may have a point that >>>>> they are illegal. >>>>> >>>>> So Rhoda, you are saying that customers go for the >>>>> cheaper price and you give one because it makes you >>>>> more competitive, but it really isn't cheaper when >>>>> you have all these last minute price increases and >>>>> other fees that might appear in the field and then >>>>> the money doesn't go to those who work the trip >>>>> when the money runs out or due to greedy teachers. >>>>> I don't think it's a good way to do business when >>>>> you're dealing with kids. I think that it's better >>>>> to have everything taken care of in advance. It's >>>>> far more honest and less stressful for all. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5/09/10, Rhoda Lott wrote: >>>>>> Trish, this idea of having "all >>>>>> included" should be seen from the right >>>>>> point of view. >>>>>> >>>>>> Whatever you include must be eventually paid by >>>>>> the client because it has a cost. If you sell a >>>>>> tour with all meals included you will pay a >>>>>> certain amount, if you do not include them the >>>>>> cost is less for the travelers but travelers have >>>>>> to add that cost themselves eventually. Which can >>>>>> be good because you have a choice of eating as >>>>>> you like according to your budget. If Tour >>>>>> Operators pay TD well and include tips, where do >>>>>> you think money is coming from? From their income >>>>>> or your pockets? I'd rather have the freedom of >>>>>> choosing what/if/how much I want to spend >>>>>> according to the guidelines and according to the >>>>>> degree of my group's satisfaction. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also note that customers today go for the >>>>>> cheapest price. If you include too much you risk >>>>>> not to be competitive unless you lower the >>>>>> quality of service. There is nothing like a free >>>>>> meal, remember! Rhoda >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/06/10, Trish wrote: >>>>>>> Not to mention that many of these cash stipends >>>>>>> are ILLEGAL in most states and should be >>>>>>> reported. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On the tipping the TD note. There are a few >>>>>>> good travel companies that pay tour directors >>>>>>> very well and include the tip so that the >>>>>>> teachers do not have to worry about it.

Jun 5, 2010

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False I just got off a tour with a group from New Jersey. Their school Superintendent was along and we discussed the topic of teacher rewards etc. He said it was a major ethics violation and illegal in New Jersey. However, he did believe that the teachers who are actually working the trip should get a 'free' spot as they are responsible for the welfare o...See MoreI just got off a tour with a group from New Jersey. Their school Superintendent was along and we discussed the topic of teacher rewards etc. He said it was a major ethics violation and illegal in New Jersey. However, he did believe that the teachers who are actually working the trip should get a 'free' spot as they are responsible for the welfare of the students. His parents and district understand and accept that. In fact, the district insists that their school nurse is included on the trip for the purpose of dispensing medicine as well as being available for medical emergencies and injuries. The group was 20 total and had done a lot of fundraising. He also told me about an ethics opinion from Ohio that spells out what is ethical and what is not. I Googled it and it is the Ohio Ethics Advisory Commission Opinion 2000-04. I also found an interesting posting in a blog about it. According to this opinion, even teachers who are traveling off school time are not exempt from the law. According to him, the trouble with teachers traveling without being sponsored is the liability issue because the school would still, ultimately, be liable for any financial problems, injuries etc. The teacher also could be sued outright by the parents and even by the school district and risk losing her home etc. (Not to mention her job) He also talked about the IRS and new regulations, but that was too technical for me!

On 6/05/10, tenderheart wrote: > Teacher stipends and free places are becoming hot topics in many > states. Teachers should really take the time to read updated laws > in their states regarding this issues. Most teachers, and even > most school systems, do not realize they may be involved in a > professional ethics violation by accepting stipends or free > places. In my school system in Alabama, we recently hired a new > Director of Finance. He sent all teachers in our district a memo, > informing us about this issue. According to the law, it is an > ethical violation for a teacher to accept a free spot or accept > any stipend for taking students on a school-sponsored trip. > Because of this, most teachers I know are still planning trips, > but are planning them without "official" school approval. This > law includes overseas trips, as well as student tours to places > such as Washington, D.C. > > I see both sides of this issue. As a teacher, I realize how hard > it is to plan a trip of such a huge magnitude. It takes time and > effort, and most tour companies like EF, offer a free place (or > the monetary equivalent) for every six places paid for. If > teachers plan and advertise this trip at school, and have the trip > approved officially by the board of education, then technically > they are committing an ethics violation. This is true in most > states. I would check with someone at your State Dept. of > Education before getting involved in this. > > > > On 5/13/10, False wrote: >> We've gotten off topic concerning the stipends for teachers and >> perhaps there should be a thread about best ways and places to >> feed a group. >> >> However, I was talking about lunches. Normally there's a group >> breakfast at the hotel and a sit-down dinner. Sometimes I've had >> a sit down lunch at a nice restaurant and a 'cash back' dinner >> the same day. I advocate cash for only one meal a day. >> >> On 5/13/10, Trish wrote: >>> I totally agree with you on some of this. I have TD'ed >>> many a group! Our cash backs though are exactly that - >>> cash, not those food court vouchers! We only use those if >>> a teacher requests it. The cash works well in areas they >>> can be dropped off, like some of the areas in Boston, or >>> the LA Farmers Market, Pikes Place Market, the >>> Smithsonians, things like that. But we stilll have alot of >>> clients that want a group meal planned for dinner. >>> soemtimes with the restaurants you have to take the time >>> they give you! And yes sometimes it can not be optimum >>> time, but that is the way it is! >>> >>> >>> On 5/13/10, False wrote: >>>> Since I am the TD, I can suggest good places to eat >>>> rather than the food >>>> courts. I have developed relationships with various >>>> types of restaurants and farmers markets in Europe and >>>> the US. There are good chains, farmers' markets,and >>>> other restaurants where the group can stay together and >>>> that are not overrun with tons of screaming kids. With >>>> what you call, 'cash backs', the students are not >>>> limited to the silly menus on meal vouchers (which are >>>> given out by most tour companies at food courts) and >>>> they can order what they want. Most of the US food >>>> court meals are not all that healthy and the kids end >>>> up at either the pizza place or McDonald's. Try to get >>>> some milk, juice, or water on a food court meal >>>> voucher! Also, not having a set time for a meal is >>>> useful when you are running a trip with lots of >>>> appointments. Sometimes I think the itineraries are set >>>> more for meals than for the sights and I have to cut >>>> short a visit to get to a yeechy group meal squeezed >>>> between other groups and it can be stressful. >>>> Additionally, I have been given times for lunch that >>>> are either a couple of hours after breakfast or a >>>> couple of hours before dinner. >>>> >>>> However, most of my groups break up into smaller ones >>>> with a chaperone at meal time, especially if they are >>>> visiting a museum or a historic/quaint area. >>>> >>>> On 5/12/10, Trish wrote: >>>>> Thank-you!!Over 90% of our customers want things like >>>>> tips included. They simply do not want to have to >>>>> worry about it!And they trust us to do the right >>>>> thing. We pay our TD's very well and the tips are >>>>> always the correct amounts. That is why we have top >>>>> guides that have been with us for years. On the meal >>>>> note, yes sometimes we do the "cash backs" >>>>> so the kids can have a choice in where to go. But >>>>> here is something to think about. More often than >>>>> not, unless you are at a food court, the group wants >>>>> to stay together and they find that not all places to >>>>> eat can take all of them together, so that have to >>>>> split up. Some teachers do not like this scenario So >>>>> that is one advantage to a group meal. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5/12/10, False wrote: >>>>>> Rhoda, I think you work for EF or you are a teacher >>>>>> getting paid by them. >>>>>> >>>>>> It seems the tour companies add a lot of last >>>>>> minute fees on the parents, which they were >>>>>> unprepared for. Then the parents have to >>>>>> guesstimate how much money to give their children >>>>>> to cover meals, tips, souvenirs, airport fees, >>>>>> transportation, and some admissions. Sometimes the >>>>>> tour companies word their descriptions in the >>>>>> brochures to lead teachers, parents, and students >>>>>> to believe something is included that is not and >>>>>> they take it out on the guide. On one itinerary we >>>>>> stay at a hotel that is over 20 kilometers from >>>>> anything >>>>>> and the group needs to pay extra if they want to >>>>>> get into town >>>>> and >>>>>> back to do something after we check in at 3:00 PM. >>>>>> So I have to deal with these complaints on tour all >>>>>> the time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Budgeting for kids is difficult to begin with and >>>>>> many run out of money for reasons that are not >>>>>> always their fault. On several of my trips (I'm an >>>>>> ITMI certified TD), the students actually ran out >>>>>> of money and did not have enough to tip me or the >>>>>> driver so it had nothing to do with the quality of >>>>>> the service. Some didn't have enough for the >>>>>> departure fees or baggage fees at the airport and >>>>>> had to call their parents to load more money on >>>>>> their ATM cards. Yo! We're dealing with kids here >>>>>> and some have never had as much money in their >>>>>> hands before. >>>>>> >>>>>> Some tour companies in the US actually give out >>>>>> cash to the students for meals so there is >>>>>> flexibility and pay for all the luggage and >>>>>> departure fees on a company credit card. The >>>>>> company takes care of the tour guides and drivers >>>>>> and therefore have better guides and drivers who >>>>>> stay with the company. >>>>>> >>>>>> I also agree that the so-called stipends are >>>>>> actually ripping-off the parents and students. I >>>>>> was just made aware of that recently by a teacher >>>>>> that was boasting on how much he was getting paid. >>>>>> I couldn't believe it. Do you have any idea how >>>>>> much better the tour could be if the teachers >>>>>> didn't take this money? Trish may have a point that >>>>>> they are illegal. >>>>>> >>>>>> So Rhoda, you are saying that customers go for the >>>>>> cheaper price and you give one because it makes you >>>>>> more competitive, but it really isn't cheaper when >>>>>> you have all these last minute price increases and >>>>>> other fees that might appear in the field and then >>>>>> the money doesn't go to those who work the trip >>>>>> when the money runs out or due to greedy teachers. >>>>>> I don't think it's a good way to do business when >>>>>> you're dealing with kids. I think that it's better >>>>>> to have everything taken care of in advance. It's >>>>>> far more honest and less stressful for all. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/09/10, Rhoda Lott wrote: >>>>>>> Trish, this idea of having "all >>>>>>> included" should be seen from the right >>>>>>> point of view. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Whatever you include must be eventually paid by >>>>>>> the client because it has a cost. If you sell a >>>>>>> tour with all meals included you will pay a >>>>>>> certain amount, if you do not include them the >>>>>>> cost is less for the travelers but travelers have >>>>>>> to add that cost themselves eventually. Which can >>>>>>> be good because you have a choice of eating as >>>>>>> you like according to your budget. If Tour >>>>>>> Operators pay TD well and include tips, where do >>>>>>> you think money is coming from? From their income >>>>>>> or your pockets? I'd rather have the freedom of >>>>>>> choosing what/if/how much I want to spend >>>>>>> according to the guidelines and according to the >>>>>>> degree of my group's satisfaction. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also note that customers today go for the >>>>>>> cheapest price. If you include too much you risk >>>>>>> not to be competitive unless you lower the >>>>>>> quality of service. There is nothing like a free >>>>>>> meal, remember! Rhoda >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/06/10, Trish wrote: >>>>>>>> Not to mention that many of these cash stipends >>>>>>>> are ILLEGAL in most states and should be >>>>>>>> reported. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On the tipping the TD note. There are a few >>>>>>>> good travel companies that pay tour directors >>>>>>>> very well and include the tip so that the >>>>>>>> teachers do not have to worry about it.

Jun 5, 2010

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Gabriele Sorry if I disturb you all on this but I was shocked when I read that you all think that TD are very well paid and that they will receive the tip from the tour company they are working for... If you think so you are completely wrong. I have been working for some important US tour Operator as Tour Director and I was paid 80 euros a day and I never r...See MoreSorry if I disturb you all on this but I was shocked when I read that you all think that TD are very well paid and that they will receive the tip from the tour company they are working for... If you think so you are completely wrong. I have been working for some important US tour Operator as Tour Director and I was paid 80 euros a day and I never received a tip from any company but only from the generousity of the clients. So... The question is: where is going all the money the kids are paying for their trips??? I leave at you all the answer and I respect any opinion without trying to convince anyone.I am just a witness of the educational travel business. ciao

On 6/05/10, tenderheart wrote: > Teacher stipends and free places are becoming hot topics in many > states. Teachers should really take the time to read updated laws > in their states regarding this issues. Most teachers, and even > most school systems, do not realize they may be involved in a > professional ethics violation by accepting stipends or free > places. In my school system in Alabama, we recently hired a new > Director of Finance. He sent all teachers in our district a memo, > informing us about this issue. According to the law, it is an > ethical violation for a teacher to accept a free spot or accept > any stipend for taking students on a school-sponsored trip. > Because of this, most teachers I know are still planning trips, > but are planning them without "official" school approval. This > law includes overseas trips, as well as student tours to places > such as Washington, D.C. > > I see both sides of this issue. As a teacher, I realize how hard > it is to plan a trip of such a huge magnitude. It takes time and > effort, and most tour companies like EF, offer a free place (or > the monetary equivalent) for every six places paid for. If > teachers plan and advertise this trip at school, and have the trip > approved officially by the board of education, then technically > they are committing an ethics violation. This is true in most > states. I would check with someone at your State Dept. of > Education before getting involved in this. > > > > On 5/13/10, False wrote: >> We've gotten off topic concerning the stipends for teachers and >> perhaps there should be a thread about best ways and places to >> feed a group. >> >> However, I was talking about lunches. Normally there's a group >> breakfast at the hotel and a sit-down dinner. Sometimes I've had >> a sit down lunch at a nice restaurant and a 'cash back' dinner >> the same day. I advocate cash for only one meal a day. >> >> On 5/13/10, Trish wrote: >>> I totally agree with you on some of this. I have TD'ed >>> many a group! Our cash backs though are exactly that - >>> cash, not those food court vouchers! We only use those if >>> a teacher requests it. The cash works well in areas they >>> can be dropped off, like some of the areas in Boston, or >>> the LA Farmers Market, Pikes Place Market, the >>> Smithsonians, things like that. But we stilll have alot of >>> clients that want a group meal planned for dinner. >>> soemtimes with the restaurants you have to take the time >>> they give you! And yes sometimes it can not be optimum >>> time, but that is the way it is! >>> >>> >>> On 5/13/10, False wrote: >>>> Since I am the TD, I can suggest good places to eat >>>> rather than the food >>>> courts. I have developed relationships with various >>>> types of restaurants and farmers markets in Europe and >>>> the US. There are good chains, farmers' markets,and >>>> other restaurants where the group can stay together and >>>> that are not overrun with tons of screaming kids. With >>>> what you call, 'cash backs', the students are not >>>> limited to the silly menus on meal vouchers (which are >>>> given out by most tour companies at food courts) and >>>> they can order what they want. Most of the US food >>>> court meals are not all that healthy and the kids end >>>> up at either the pizza place or McDonald's. Try to get >>>> some milk, juice, or water on a food court meal >>>> voucher! Also, not having a set time for a meal is >>>> useful when you are running a trip with lots of >>>> appointments. Sometimes I think the itineraries are set >>>> more for meals than for the sights and I have to cut >>>> short a visit to get to a yeechy group meal squeezed >>>> between other groups and it can be stressful. >>>> Additionally, I have been given times for lunch that >>>> are either a couple of hours after breakfast or a >>>> couple of hours before dinner. >>>> >>>> However, most of my groups break up into smaller ones >>>> with a chaperone at meal time, especially if they are >>>> visiting a museum or a historic/quaint area. >>>> >>>> On 5/12/10, Trish wrote: >>>>> Thank-you!!Over 90% of our customers want things like >>>>> tips included. They simply do not want to have to >>>>> worry about it!And they trust us to do the right >>>>> thing. We pay our TD's very well and the tips are >>>>> always the correct amounts. That is why we have top >>>>> guides that have been with us for years. On the meal >>>>> note, yes sometimes we do the "cash backs" >>>>> so the kids can have a choice in where to go. But >>>>> here is something to think about. More often than >>>>> not, unless you are at a food court, the group wants >>>>> to stay together and they find that not all places to >>>>> eat can take all of them together, so that have to >>>>> split up. Some teachers do not like this scenario So >>>>> that is one advantage to a group meal. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5/12/10, False wrote: >>>>>> Rhoda, I think you work for EF or you are a teacher >>>>>> getting paid by them. >>>>>> >>>>>> It seems the tour companies add a lot of last >>>>>> minute fees on the parents, which they were >>>>>> unprepared for. Then the parents have to >>>>>> guesstimate how much money to give their children >>>>>> to cover meals, tips, souvenirs, airport fees, >>>>>> transportation, and some admissions. Sometimes the >>>>>> tour companies word their descriptions in the >>>>>> brochures to lead teachers, parents, and students >>>>>> to believe something is included that is not and >>>>>> they take it out on the guide. On one itinerary we >>>>>> stay at a hotel that is over 20 kilometers from >>>>> anything >>>>>> and the group needs to pay extra if they want to >>>>>> get into town >>>>> and >>>>>> back to do something after we check in at 3:00 PM. >>>>>> So I have to deal with these complaints on tour all >>>>>> the time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Budgeting for kids is difficult to begin with and >>>>>> many run out of money for reasons that are not >>>>>> always their fault. On several of my trips (I'm an >>>>>> ITMI certified TD), the students actually ran out >>>>>> of money and did not have enough to tip me or the >>>>>> driver so it had nothing to do with the quality of >>>>>> the service. Some didn't have enough for the >>>>>> departure fees or baggage fees at the airport and >>>>>> had to call their parents to load more money on >>>>>> their ATM cards. Yo! We're dealing with kids here >>>>>> and some have never had as much money in their >>>>>> hands before. >>>>>> >>>>>> Some tour companies in the US actually give out >>>>>> cash to the students for meals so there is >>>>>> flexibility and pay for all the luggage and >>>>>> departure fees on a company credit card. The >>>>>> company takes care of the tour guides and drivers >>>>>> and therefore have better guides and drivers who >>>>>> stay with the company. >>>>>> >>>>>> I also agree that the so-called stipends are >>>>>> actually ripping-off the parents and students. I >>>>>> was just made aware of that recently by a teacher >>>>>> that was boasting on how much he was getting paid. >>>>>> I couldn't believe it. Do you have any idea how >>>>>> much better the tour could be if the teachers >>>>>> didn't take this money? Trish may have a point that >>>>>> they are illegal. >>>>>> >>>>>> So Rhoda, you are saying that customers go for the >>>>>> cheaper price and you give one because it makes you >>>>>> more competitive, but it really isn't cheaper when >>>>>> you have all these last minute price increases and >>>>>> other fees that might appear in the field and then >>>>>> the money doesn't go to those who work the trip >>>>>> when the money runs out or due to greedy teachers. >>>>>> I don't think it's a good way to do business when >>>>>> you're dealing with kids. I think that it's better >>>>>> to have everything taken care of in advance. It's >>>>>> far more honest and less stressful for all. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/09/10, Rhoda Lott wrote: >>>>>>> Trish, this idea of having "all >>>>>>> included" should be seen from the right >>>>>>> point of view. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Whatever you include must be eventually paid by >>>>>>> the client because it has a cost. If you sell a >>>>>>> tour with all meals included you will pay a >>>>>>> certain amount, if you do not include them the >>>>>>> cost is less for the travelers but travelers have >>>>>>> to add that cost themselves eventually. Which can >>>>>>> be good because you have a choice of eating as >>>>>>> you like according to your budget. If Tour >>>>>>> Operators pay TD well and include tips, where do >>>>>>> you think money is coming from? From their income >>>>>>> or your pockets? I'd rather have the freedom of >>>>>>> choosing what/if/how much I want to spend >>>>>>> according to the guidelines and according to the >>>>>>> degree of my group's satisfaction. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also note that customers today go for the >>>>>>> cheapest price. If you include too much you risk >>>>>>> not to be competitive unless you lower the >>>>>>> quality of service. There is nothing like a free >>>>>>> meal, remember! Rhoda >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/06/10, Trish wrote: >>>>>>>> Not to mention that many of these cash stipends >>>>>>>> are ILLEGAL in most states and should be >>>>>>>> reported. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On the tipping the TD note. There are a few >>>>>>>> good travel companies that pay tour directors >>>>>>>> very well and include the tip so that the >>>>>>>> teachers do not have to worry about it.

Jul 8, 2010

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