Re: Teachers Union cont.

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Illinois Teachers Chatboard

Re: Teachers Union cont.

by sped

Mar 1, 2011

wow, that's kinda like extortion.

No it's not. Extortion is what administrators do to teachers in non-tenured, non-union states. Buy a bunch of stuff for your classroom, or you won't be here next year.

> Some guy shows up at my >house, mows my lawn without me asking him to, then tacks a >bill to my door. Then the city government automatically >deducts the money from my checking account.

Well, your analogy would imply that this happened without your knowledge. A better analogy would be a condo or home owner's association. You buy a home in the association. You agree to pay a fee and to abide by certain rules, in exchange they provide certain services. If you don't want to be a member, live elsewhere. There are many, many non-union teaching jobs all over the country, even in closed-shop states. They're in private schools. Feel free to work there. They pay next to nothing and you're treated like crap. They pay next to nothing and you're treated like...See Morewow, that's kinda like extortion.

No it's not. Extortion is what administrators do to teachers in non-tenured, non-union states. Buy a bunch of stuff for your classroom, or you won't be here next year.

> Some guy shows up at my >house, mows my lawn without me asking him to, then tacks a >bill to my door. Then the city government automatically >deducts the money from my checking account.

Well, your analogy would imply that this happened without your knowledge. A better analogy would be a condo or home owner's association. You buy a home in the association. You agree to pay a fee and to abide by certain rules, in exchange they provide certain services. If you don't want to be a member, live elsewhere. There are many, many non-union teaching jobs all over the country, even in closed-shop states. They're in private schools. Feel free to work there. They pay next to nothing and you're treated like crap. They pay next to nothing and you're treated like crap BECAUSE they're non-union.

>Now a collective bargaining agreement might help some >teachers (those with tenure who have been in the system a >long time), but it also hurts new teachers.

New teachers benefit from higher wages, benefits, and better working conditions secured in a CBA.

>The "last in >first out" policy means young, dynamic, effective teachers >are let go so that old, ineffective, unethical teachers can >enjoy fat paychecks and job security.

This is a tired argument usually made by outsiders to education. Old doesn't necessarily mean ineffective. It may, and quite often does mean that you're capable, experienced, and able to deal with the many, many challenges that come up when working with today's students. Young doesn't necessarily mean dynamic or effective. In fact, it's quite often the opposite. Just like any rookie in any field, you need to learn how to actually do the job in the field. While some teachers come out of the box capable and ready to go, others know a lot of psychological and philosophical nonsense, that doesn't mean much of anything in front of a classroom.

I am an administrator. I hire and fire. However, I was a teacher and still benefit from the many rights and benefits won by the union as an administrator, chief among those are our retirement and health benefits. Now, in my current job, I like the idea of no unions. I like the idea of firing people who are too expensive. It would make my meetings with my boss much easier when we discuss finances. I also like the idea of firing people because they get old and sick. Hey, subs cost money. As an administrator, I also would like to be able to fire people who I don't like. I can think of a few of those..., so, on one hand, I hope your anti-union fever catches fire. I might even give you a job in Illinois..., just pray you don't look at me wrong and I let you keep it..., until you hit about 50, then you're gone! Yeah, you're new world is growing on me...

Wha? You think you have rights? Nope. You have no one to speak for you because the evil union is gone or neutered. Nope, you didn't sign the birthday card going around your school for me, so bye bye... This is the world you are supporting if you're anti-union. Just look around, it exists in the private sector already.

"The teacher's union in Illinois essentially operates like a cartel."

You sound like someone else who comes around here quite a bit. If you're the same person, I've kicked you up and down this board over this issue. Your arguments are basically summed up as: "I can't get a job teaching in Illinois, so everyone who does have a job sucks and the whole system sucks, and I hate you all."

If you are not this individual, I suggest you familiarize yourself with what exactly a cartel is. There is a very large private school sector in Illinois and around the country that is almost completely non-union. You and anyone who despises unions are free to work there as a teacher. Heck, there are a lot of pluses: "trouble" kids are kicked to the curb (one of the reasons private schools do better, they can simply get rid of their problem kids and send them to us), very few, if any special ed kids, and usually more reasonable class sizes. Of course, they don't pay anything, poor if any benefits, and they can fire you whenever they like for whatever reason. But, that's what you want as a union-hater, so, good for you!

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