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Illinois Teachers Chatboard

Thank you, Chicago Teachers

by Enough is Enough

Sep 13, 2012

Thank you to all Chicago teachers who have been willing to stand up and say, "Enough is enough." Teacher evaluations based on issues beyond a teacher's control are absurd, and that is exactly what happens when you make test scores the end-all for evaluations, promotions, etc. Is that really the kind of classroom situation that we want for our children? Our classrooms are the best in the world; that is why other citizens of the world dream of having their children study here. Their scores may be higher, but they do not have a public system like we do. No child is denied a right to an education and children are given a well-rounded educational experience; that is not a comparison that is shown in a score... God bless Chicago teachers and their students!

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Merrill yeah Sped: it is the 19th century for everyone who isn't unionized, lol -give me a break dude.

You say you want to extend these union rights to everyone, I can see how that will play out: I go in for major surgery and the doctor quits in the middle, saying "according to my contract, I only work until 3PM today." And the nurse says, "But do...See More

Oct 18, 2012

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sped On 10/18/12, Merrill wrote:

> You say you want to extend these union rights to > everyone, I can see how that will play out: I go in for > major surgery and the doctor quits in the middle, > saying "according to my contract, I only work > until 3PM today." And the nurse says, "But > doctor! We can't leave him this way!" ...See MoreOn 10/18/12, Merrill wrote:

> You say you want to extend these union rights to > everyone, I can see how that will play out: I go in for > major surgery and the doctor quits in the middle, > saying "according to my contract, I only work > until 3PM today." And the nurse says, "But > doctor! We can't leave him this way!" To which the > reply is: "What, are you some kind of > right-winger? I am going to play golf--you figure it > out."

Yet, teachers don't do that. Nearly every teacher I know, and I'm in charge of three special ed departments at three school, works many more hours than contractually required.

Its interesting, Doctors ARE unionized in Australia, the UK, Canada, and New Zealand. They are likely unionized in the rest of the western world, but harder to search for information when the websites aren't in English. Your suggestion that docs stop in the middle of surgery just doesn't happen. In fact, on average, people in those nations receive better healthcare and treatment (likely because everyone gets it regardless of job, insurance, or wealth).

Oh, and Doctors make more money (on average) in the US than they do in those other nations..., but I thought unions unfairly drove up wages?

So, your impression of the lazy teacher is not true. I've worked with far more teachers than you ever have in four districts (including one year in CPS), and almost all of them work much longer than their contracts require. They do way more stuff than they have to, and even reach into their own pockets to pay for student supplies and, in some cases, food. You've read a couple of teacher contracts, and apparently imagine a mass exodus at 3:01pm. It doesn't happen. I see most teachers working early and staying late almost every day. Hours and hours more than the contract says. Spending money on activities they don't have to spend, out of their own pockets. Serving on committees for no additional money, helping out at extra curricular activities for little or no pay, designing new curriculum, and working with kids who want to learn. Not lazy. Not selfish. Almost 100 percent. Every day. This is what I see. I'm their boss. I got no reason to lie.

Your blanket statement about the union worker is not based in reality. Unionized doctors and nurses in the rest of the western world don't do that. Doesn't happen. I've been in the hospital in Canada. I can tell you it doesn't. Personal experience, just like with the teachers I work with everyday. Not something I picked up from right-wing blogs or a documentary. I've also worked with union tradespeople who work on the property I own..., not lazy. Not laying around making big bucks. Nope. Never seen it, and I was the one paying them for their services. Does it happen? Maybe, but I don't see a bit of evidence that it happens a lot.

It is not a crime to want a secure retirement, decent wages, and benefits. You might want to make it a crime and take from these hard working people, but as their boss, and a person who pays property taxes in three states on more than a dozen properties, I don't.

> And for the record, I didn't threaten you.

Yeah, you did. You can't suggest saying something is bad for my health or suggest that it was good that I didn't say that in front of you and not mean that as a threat. It's a threat. Own it. I've been threatened by parents before. I've had them arrested. Even sued one. This happens usually after one of my teachers has been assaulted and I had to tell them their kid is in jail. Apple... tree, and whatnot. I'm a big boy. You should be too and own it.

I thought > you were directly insulting my own children, and that I > will not tolerate from anyone. Evidently, you were > talking about my students (but I am not a teacher right > now--I was back in the mid 1990s)

You said "our students" can't identify their home state, can't read, etc. I don't agree with that if you mean Illinois or American students, so I assumed you meant something more personal. Some of my students are like that, and I work in Special Ed, but most kids come out of school pretty well educated. I'm really, really smart, but I learned the foundation of that in school. I became really, really smart by reading and studying outside of school. Just about any kid who wants to be educated will be educated in the public schools. Even my students who are disabled can and do learn. I wish we could do more. I wish I didn't have to teach a kid who can't identify $2 in loose change algebra, instead teaching him life-skills he needs, but thats the system I work in. I'm pretty high up on the food chain and I can't change that. So, I do what I can. Unions don't stop me from changing it. Lawmakers of both parties do.

If you know how to reach and teach the kids you're talking about, who care more about a particular gang's territory than identifying their home state. The ones who can't skip count or tell time at 14 and who threaten teachers who try so hard to help them. The ones who have dropped out without actually dropping out... If you genuinely can help them, I'll find a way to give you a teaching job tomorrow because you know something the rest of us just don't... and you'll deserve every bit of your health insurance, retirement, and pay that you seem to think teachers aren't entitled to.

Oct 18, 2012

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Michael On 10/18/12, Merrill wrote:

> Nevertheless, it didn't stop Karen Lewis from shutting > down the CPS

Fact Check: Karen Lewis didn't shut down anything. My 26,000 CTU brothers and sisters and I did.

SPED: Thank you for fighting this troll. I wish I could buy you a beer. You've earned it. Eventually he will tire and ...See More

Oct 19, 2012

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sped On 10/19/12, Michael wrote:

> SPED: Thank you for fighting this troll. I wish I could buy > you a beer. You've earned it. Eventually he will tire and > disappear and we'll be back to questions about how to get > an IL certificate. Thank you.

You're welcome.

Y'know. Somehow, in the last several years, teacher...See More

Oct 19, 2012

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Merrill On 10/19/12, sped wrote: > On 10/19/12, Michael wrote: > >> SPED: Thank you for fighting this troll. I wish I could buy >> you a beer. You've earned it. Eventually he will tire and >> disappear and we'll be back to questions about how to get >> an IL certificate. Thank you. > > You're welcome. > > Y'know. S...See MoreOn 10/19/12, sped wrote: > On 10/19/12, Michael wrote: > >> SPED: Thank you for fighting this troll. I wish I could buy >> you a beer. You've earned it. Eventually he will tire and >> disappear and we'll be back to questions about how to get >> an IL certificate. Thank you. > > You're welcome. > > Y'know. Somehow, in the last several years, teachers have gone > from underpaid, to overpaid..., and our pay hasn't been going up > all that much. > > There have always been people who don't respect teachers. The > kind of people who go on about "those who can't teach," the > people who just didn't like school and teachers as kids, or the > types who are just envious of summers off (though not able or > willing to actually become a teacher). However, in the last few > years, somehow educators became lazy, rich, and are even hurting > kids!? We're working harder than ever, with fewer people and > resources than ever before. > > The only times I've ever seen teachers regularly clock out right > at their contractual ending time was after a non-tenured teacher > had been non-renewed or after someone had resigned for the > following year for whatever reason. Even that was rare. I could > visit any of our schools at 5 o'clock on any given day (2 and a > half hours after dismissal) and find about half of our teachers > still there. I have teachers regularly ASK me to schedule > meetings after or before school because they don't want to miss > class time, even though their contract says I'm supposed to get > them a sub and hold the meeting during the school-day. I've had > teachers come to me and complain that they can't get in the > building to work during Spring Break. This concept of a lazy, > clock-watching teacher just doesn't exist in my world. I'd like > the Waiting for Superman guys to come by my district and roll > some tape. Or the district I previously worked with. Strangely, > they don't...

I never said all teachers were lazy: I said some teachers are lazy and can't teach.

The problem is not the teachers, it is the union that protects teachers who are lazy, can't teach, and in some cases are a danger to the students. You would be pretty pissed off if your son was in a classroom where the teacher was inept, or worse, in a classroom where the teacher was a sex offender, and there was nothing you could do about it.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee: it isn't right-wingers bringing up this debate, it is people in the Democratic Party, people on the left, who are tired of this blank check that has been given to a union that acts against the public interest.

It is especially bad when we have administrators, who are supposed to be acting on behalf of the community and the taxpayers, acting as union shills on Internet message boards.

Oct 22, 2012

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