Nature vs Nurture, teaching approach

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Nature vs Nurture, teaching approach

by Ren-Student

Mar 30, 2011

Hello,

Many of us are aware that infants have the capacity to be independent beings, that have the ability to communicate effectively with others. As children grow, they learn more and develop at individual rates.

I'm am doing some research around Piaget and Vygotsky theories and I am curious to know the different approaches you take within your teaching methods to support the development of self-regulation? What kinds of supports are useful at what ages and what situations?

Any thoughts or opinions on this issue would be much appreciated.

Thank you!

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Sara On 4/13/11, Tom wrote:

I taught for years in a school whose philosophy was one of self- regulation and years ago I stumbled on Alfie Kohn and recognized him as a kind of fellow believer. But I'd be interested to have your understanding of Marvin Marshall - he may at heart have the right things at heart but the A B C D stuff that Kelly wri...See MoreOn 4/13/11, Tom wrote:

I taught for years in a school whose philosophy was one of self- regulation and years ago I stumbled on Alfie Kohn and recognized him as a kind of fellow believer. But I'd be interested to have your understanding of Marvin Marshall - he may at heart have the right things at heart but the A B C D stuff that Kelly writes about seems like gobblety-gook to me, even somewhat robotic. Is Marvin Marshall's system Self-Regulation for Dummies? By that I mean dummy teachers not students because the dummy teacher that I must be is too dumb to see the value of his 'system' though I do value the concept of 'self-regulation' (while disliking the term and thinking it rather gobblety-gookish too)

The censors tend to censor all very long posts I've found.

In any case, Tom, your insights into Marvin Marshall's system might help me to see something in it. Sara > I wrote a very long response to Ren-student's question (all very > relevant, in my eyes at least:-), but the censors wouldn't let > it through. > > Ironically, there has been a movement for self-regulation since > the 60's, but the status quo in American education has never > understood it. It's currently championed by what I imagine to be > a minority of teachers, while the vast majority soldier blindly > on with compliance and extrinsic rewards, punishments, and > praise-and-shame-as-manipulations. Alfie Kohn is a good author > to check out for more info, as is Marvin Marshall. Ah. And Kerry > from BC also writes very generously about it. > > I'd write more, but I'm thinking that even this will get the > censorial kabosh. > > Fingers crossed... > > Tom > > On 4/12/11, Sara wrote: >> On 3/30/11, Ren-Student wrote: >> >> Teaching is not really the scientific approach that your good >> question assumes it to be. I'll be pleasantly surprised if >> you get any relevant answers to this question. Usually only >> preschool teachers or psychology teachers are familiar with >> Piaget or Vygotsky. >> >> Your question also assumes that American education has the >> intention of developing self-regulation. Why do you assume >> that to be the case? >> >> Have you been educated in the States? If so, let me ask this >> first. What different approaches did you encounter in >> teaching methods that supported the development of self- >> regulation? >> >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> Many of us are aware that infants have the capacity to be >>> independent beings, that have the ability to communicate >>> effectively with others. As children grow, they learn more >>> and develop at individual rates. >>> >>> I'm am doing some research around Piaget and Vygotsky >>> theories and I am curious to know the different approaches >>> you take within your teaching methods to support the >>> development of self-regulation? What kinds of supports are >>> useful at what ages and what situations? >>> >>> Any thoughts or opinions on this issue would be much >>> appreciated. >>> >>> Thank you!

Apr 15, 2011

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Tom Sara,

I'm not the expert that Kerry is, but I think I have a pretty solid understanding based on Marshall's website and Kerry's posts.

As I see it, the value of Marshall's system is that it gives kids (and teachers) a very accessible way to understand human behavior. It's codified and labeled in such a way that everyone can unders...See MoreSara,

I'm not the expert that Kerry is, but I think I have a pretty solid understanding based on Marshall's website and Kerry's posts.

As I see it, the value of Marshall's system is that it gives kids (and teachers) a very accessible way to understand human behavior. It's codified and labeled in such a way that everyone can understand it, even young elementary students. I'm sure that the formal ABCD route w0rks for many teachers, but like you, I find it too formulaic. I've used my own system over the years which has the same goal as Marshall's, but honestly, the way I do it relies on my own mini- lectures and coaching around human development. Marshall's method is much simpler and easier to disseminate.

I did borrow Marshall's four stages of human development this year, however, renaming them and using them in a chart to help my students understand themselves. The students liked it and responded to it well.

All my best,

Tom

On 4/15/11, Sara wrote: > On 4/13/11, Tom wrote: > > I taught for years in a school whose philosophy was one of self- > regulation and years ago I stumbled on Alfie Kohn and recognized > him as a kind of fellow believer. > But I'd be interested to have your understanding of Marvin > Marshall - he may at heart have the right things at heart but the A > B C D stuff that Kelly writes about seems like gobblety-gook to me, > even somewhat robotic. Is Marvin Marshall's system Self-Regulation > for Dummies? By that I mean dummy teachers not students because the > dummy teacher that I must be is too dumb to see the value of > his 'system' though I do value the concept of 'self-regulation' > (while disliking the term and thinking it rather gobblety-gookish > too) > > The censors tend to censor all very long posts I've found. > > In any case, Tom, your insights into Marvin Marshall's system might > help me to see something in it. > Sara >> I wrote a very long response to Ren-student's question (all very >> relevant, in my eyes at least:-), but the censors wouldn't let >> it through. >> >> Ironically, there has been a movement for self-regulation since >> the 60's, but the status quo in American education has never >> understood it. It's currently championed by what I imagine to be >> a minority of teachers, while the vast majority soldier blindly >> on with compliance and extrinsic rewards, punishments, and >> praise-and-shame-as-manipulations. Alfie Kohn is a good author >> to check out for more info, as is Marvin Marshall. Ah. And Kerry >> from BC also writes very generously about it. >> >> I'd write more, but I'm thinking that even this will get the >> censorial kabosh. >> >> Fingers crossed... >> >> Tom >> >> On 4/12/11, Sara wrote: >>> On 3/30/11, Ren-Student wrote: >>> >>> Teaching is not really the scientific approach that your good >>> question assumes it to be. I'll be pleasantly surprised if >>> you get any relevant answers to this question. Usually only >>> preschool teachers or psychology teachers are familiar with >>> Piaget or Vygotsky. >>> >>> Your question also assumes that American education has the >>> intention of developing self-regulation. Why do you assume >>> that to be the case? >>> >>> Have you been educated in the States? If so, let me ask this >>> first. What different approaches did you encounter in >>> teaching methods that supported the development of self- >>> regulation? >>> >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> Many of us are aware that infants have the capacity to be >>>> independent beings, that have the ability to communicate >>>> effectively with others. As children grow, they learn more >>>> and develop at individual rates. >>>> >>>> I'm am doing some research around Piaget and Vygotsky >>>> theories and I am curious to know the different approaches >>>> you take within your teaching methods to support the >>>> development of self-regulation? What kinds of supports are >>>> useful at what ages and what situations? >>>> >>>> Any thoughts or opinions on this issue would be much >>>> appreciated. >>>> >>>> Thank you!

Apr 16, 2011

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Kerry in BC Hi everyone,

I first heard the term, "self-regulation" last spring as I was applying to move to full day K. In my province FDK is a new initiative... to provide a developmentally appropriate full day K environment and the development of self-regulation is a big part of the program.

At first, it seemed to me that self-regulation ...See More

Apr 17, 2011

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Tom Kerry,

Your posts are always so comprehensive and helpful.

Thanks so much.

Tom

On 4/17/11, Kerry in BC wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I first heard the term, "self-regulation" last spring as I was applying to > move to full day K. In my province FDK is a new initiative... to provide > a developmentally ...See MoreKerry,

Your posts are always so comprehensive and helpful.

Thanks so much.

Tom

On 4/17/11, Kerry in BC wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I first heard the term, "self-regulation" last spring as I was applying to > move to full day K. In my province FDK is a new initiative... to provide > a developmentally appropriate full day K environment and the development > of self-regulation is a big part of the program. > > At first, it seemed to me that self-regulation must be directly related to > Marvin Marshall's approach but I found out that although connected, > self-regulation and self-discipline or self- control are not the same > thing. Self-regulation is a much broader subject. Just now, in viewing a > video about self-regulation (in order to make a response here,) I wrote > down a key point.... "The better a child self-regulates, the better a > child can learn self-control." > > Another key point that the Canadian expert (Dr. Steward Shanker of > Toronto) I'm quoting makes is that self-regulation comes easier to some > children than others but it can be enhanced in all children by their > caregivers. It is also already quite well-established BEFORE a child > comes to school. In other words, we have the best chance to help kids > learn self-regulation the younger they are (and also the more > self-regulated WE are, as models.) It begins in infancy and has much to > do with caregiving. Not surprisingly, kids who grow up with caring, > self-regulated adults often develop good self-regulation too. > > Parents who are "tuned into" to their babies and are successful at > soothing them, eventually help the child learn to tune into themselves > and learn to soothe themselves. In other words, self- regulation has to > do with learning to deal with stress effectively. Some kids have more > challenges in this respect than others. Just as a small example, some > kids come into this world with more sensitivities to noise, lights etc. > The most challenged in this sense are kids who have degrees of autism. > > Self-regulation has to do with learning and this spectrum: > > 6. Flooded > > 5. Hyperalert > > 4. Calmly focused and alert (optimal learning*) > > 3. Hypoalert > > 2. Drowsy > > 1. Asleep > > As teachers, Level 4 of this chart is where we want kids to be in our > classrooms. The goal is help kids learn how to "tune in" to this level, > where they will do best in school. Although we typically notice many > kids at levels 5/6 and recognize that they can't learn well, it's > important to realize that kids at the other end of the spectrum (those > who just sit there or mope around or daydream etc.) also are not > self-regulating well either. > > We often don't really pay much attention to the quiet ones (or at least > they get less of our attention than those kids who are at the hyper > stages) we need we should be worried about them too... you can't learn if > you're half-asleep. > > The idea in making self-regulation a focus for teachers in full day K in > my province is that by having the children at school for more time at a > young age (in a play-based environment with no more academic curriculum > than they had before in half-day K) we can better help them learn to > self-regulate and this eventually will lead to greater academic success as > they move on to grade one and higher. > > Anyway, if anyone is interested, I'll add a link below to an hour long > keynote presentation by Stewart Shanker that I found online. In his > easy-to-listen-to talk, he gives an explanation of what self-regulation > is, how it develops, and how it relates to becoming self-disciplined. > > As for Marvin Marshall's approach.... > > I see his approach as a way of helping children to understand and learn > about the importance of self-discipline, self-regulation etc. As Tom > mentioned, his four level Hierarchy provides a very easy way to talk > about human behavior with kids of all ages. The main purpose is to use it > to teach kids the difference between the two top levels internal and > external MOTIVATION (as opposed to behavior.) To me, the amazing thing > is how this information spurs kids on to WANT to be internally focused > and more motivated in their learning and behavior. > > As Tom also mentioned, you don't need to use Marshall's actual chart to be > able to do this. If you can find your own words to get these same ideas > across to kids then you would be working towards the same goals that > Marvin Marshall promotes. > > Have a good week ahead, everyone! > > Kerry > > >

Apr 17, 2011

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Nicole I teach kindergarten special education, so my students are on a preschool level. I find that I need a balanced approach. They need to be nurtured at times, but need to be given the opportunity to grow and learn independently within their environment. On 3/30/11, Ren-Student wrote: > Hello, > > Many of us are aware that infants have the cap...See More

May 22, 2011

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