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Teacher Unions Chatboard

Benefits of Unions?

by Kimberly Riffle

Jun 9, 2011

Hello everyone, I just finished my first year teaching at a small private school, and am looking into the benefits of joining a teachers' union. I was wondering if anyone knows of a good one. Are there different unions for private and public schools? Are the costs astronomical?

Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks, Kim

view previous comments

L On 6/10/11, Dorothy wrote: > On 6/09/11, Kimberly Riffle wrote: >> Hello everyone, I just finished my first year teaching at a >> small private school, and am looking into the benefits of >> joining a teachers' union. I was wondering if anyone knows >> of a good one. Are there different unions for private and >> pub...See More

Jun 13, 2011

L On 6/10/11, Dorothy wrote: > On 6/09/11, Kimberly Riffle wrote: >> Hello everyone, I just finished my first year teaching at a >> small private school, and am looking into the benefits of >> joining a teachers' union. I was wondering if anyone knows >> of a good one. Are there different unions for private and >> pub...See More

Jun 13, 2011

Why wouldn't you belong to a union?

by Rin

Jun 9, 2011

I am still amazed in the number of people who do not belong to their union. Although Florida is a right to work state, our union keeps some of the bad legislation from being passed or fighting it after the fact. Look what they did with vouchers? Even in a bad economy, if the union wasn't working on behalf of teachers and education professionals it ...See More

view previous comments

anon What people have to understand is private sector employers, at least the larger ones, are much more careful about terminating employees than public schools. The reason for that is a lawsuit could bankrupt a business, or, if they have insurance, create a wrong public impression, which can hurt the bottom line.

Public schools, because they ...See MoreWhat people have to understand is private sector employers, at least the larger ones, are much more careful about terminating employees than public schools. The reason for that is a lawsuit could bankrupt a business, or, if they have insurance, create a wrong public impression, which can hurt the bottom line.

Public schools, because they are supported with taxpayer funds, can pull all kinds of illegal garbage and get away with it. They don't care if people sue because their insurance company will pay for federal suits, assuming you can even find a lawyer to take it, and that is just about impossible given the fact districts drag cases out for years on end. Teachers, contrary to tenure laws, have NO rights at all. Administrators have obscene power to destroy lives and careers, and the districts will back these morons and cretins to the hilt.

The "union" and its law firm were useless in my case: they colluded with the school district after my last principal and the human resources chief officer both screwed up with my case. My "offense" didn't even merit an oral reprimand, yet this miserable human being of a principal FIRED me violating state and federal law.

It is very easy to fire teachers because school districts operate above the law. Administrative law isn't worth the paper it is written on.

On 8/31/11, led wrote: > Doesn't the law itself ensure any employee to due process? What about > all the people in the private sector that have jobs? However, they > don't have tenure. And they don't go on strike. > > No, the law does not protect employees in much more than hypothetical > ways. I was wrongfully terminated without due process. No attorney > wanted to touch my case because I would have had to fight in Claims > Court, which is not a good place to be if you want to win a case. > > > Why the need for tenure? If you are a good teacher, the business > (school) would be crazy to get rid of you. > > Simple. Because you become too expensive to hold on to. And with that > experience ($$) behind you, no one else will want to hire you either. > Employees in the private sector experience this all the time. It's > called ageism.

Oct 8, 2011

anon The sad truth is principals do this anyway, and districts back them up and rig the legal process in order to protect the principals who break the law.

Tenure is simply the "right" to a rigged hearing, which is paid for by school districts. School districts want to get rid of "tenure" to save money on hearings; they couldn't care less abou...See MoreThe sad truth is principals do this anyway, and districts back them up and rig the legal process in order to protect the principals who break the law.

Tenure is simply the "right" to a rigged hearing, which is paid for by school districts. School districts want to get rid of "tenure" to save money on hearings; they couldn't care less about the increased number of federal suits because they don't pay for them directly--their insurance companies do.

On 6/19/11, Michele wrote: > The need for tenure is simple. It means that you cannot > be fired without just > cause/due process. That should be the minimum > expectation of ANY professional! > > Without tenure, an administrator can decide they didn't > like something you said/did/wore or ate for that matter > and they could then FIRE you. And if you don't think we > have thousands and thousands of lousy administrators > like that all around the country, then you're a fool. > At the dairy the cream rises to the top, but in > education it's the crap that rises, more often than > not. > > > > On 6/14/11, sci-saxet --- I think you missed my ques on > tenure wrote: >> On 6/12/11, Stellaluna to sci-saxet wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Why the need for tenure? If you are a good >>>> teacher, the business (school) would be crazy to >>>> get rid of you. >>> >>> This would seem logical, however often not the >>> case. That would rely on the premise that all >>> administrators are competent... or that only the >>> best teachers who actually have an adequate >>> understanding of how students learn are promoted >>> into these positions which, unfortunately is not >>> the case. >> >> and you gave the example below. But I still do not >> see the need for tenure. I have a term contract. In >> Texas, the education code also says that if a >> district does not notify you that you won't have a >> job, then you will have a job (my words not the >> codes). So if my evaluation is good, then I need not >> worry. If it is not good, then your evaluator should >> be mentoring you and prescribing a plan for you to >> improve. This would require lots of documentation. >> Now if you are on probation, then this is less strict >> and the district can just let you go for no cause at >> the end of the year. >> >> Do you have someone(s) come in and evaluate your >> performance? How many times a year and for how long? >> Do they then go over your performance at the end of >> the year? (we call this a summative) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I know of a principal who was given the position >>> after only 2 yrs of teaching because HE WAS THE >>> ONLY MALE ON STAFF. Yep... he was a lousy teacher.. >>> so not surprisingly he was a lousy admin. Luckily, >>> he only lasted 5 yrs... but those were BAAAAAD >>> years. No clue. He shuffled students around to be >>> sure that the young, cute teachers got all of the >>> well-behaved, high performing students and the rest >>> went to those that he didn't care for. Thenhe >>> evaluated them based on student performance... and >>> no I'm not a bitter teacher who got all of the poor >>> performing students. I worked at a different site, >>> but my best friend was one of those cute new >>> teachers who knew her class was stacked. >>> >>> The business model does not mesh in schools because >>> there are many factors that are out of our control >>> in terms of our "product". >>> >>> Also, I have a dear friend in the private sector >>> who after 30 yrs of successful service just had his >>> job eliminated. Fortunately for him, he had been >>> paid very well over the years and is financially >>> stable even if he doesn't find another job. But do >>> you want this kind of vulnerablility? 30 years of a >>> low paying job so NO financial security... and then >>> what? On the whim of an admin. who doesn't LIKE >>> you? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Seems that you are paying the union lots of money >>>> to do something that is already written in the >>>> law. And then they give a lot of that money for >>>> one political party. >>>> >>> >>> If it was already written into the law and workers >>> were protected... then why so many grievances? >>> Also, who is going to come to bat for you and >>> ensure that the district is following the law. Can >>> you afford a lawyer on teachers pay (which >>> incidentally would be even lower without union >>> representation). >>> >>> Last year our school board voted to cut teachers >>> salaries by a whopping 17 percent. No cuts to >>> admin. (who are the highest paid in our county >>> while our teachers are in the average range for our >>> county BEFORE the cuts), cut a ton of support staff >>> but NO other cost saving attempts were implemented. >>> Through countless hours of negotiations, our union >>> managed to reduce the cuts to 6 percent by >>> including admin. in the cuts, finding other ways to >>> cut costs by trimming spending in all areas of the >>> budget, and by hiring a lawyer that proved that the >>> district was not as financially poor as it claimed. >>> In addition, our union insisted that the cuts >>> include restorative language for all so that when >>> there was an increase in revenues that we predicted >>> that the district vowed would never come, we got 4 >>> percent of the cut returned to us. All we wanted >>> was to be treated fairly and compensated at a rate >>> that was in line with the rest of the school >>> districts. >>> >>> Without our union, many of us... me included... >>> would have lost our homes. I could not have made it >>> with a 17 percent cut to my salary (esp. >>> considering we have not even had COLA in 5 yrs - so >>> my buying power had already been reduced before the >>> cut) >>> >>> If I never appreciated my union before... I >>> certainly do now! >>> >>> 5 years ago I never would have predicted that our >>> situation would require such action.... but now I >>> know to expect the worst and be ready to fight for >>> what is right and fair. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>

Oct 8, 2011

Midwest states are losing union power

by legislators have made them look bad

Jun 9, 2011

We are constantly bombarded with a commercial telling us tenure is bad and new teachers are better than older ones. Unions did help with salaries, insurance, etc., but their power is very diminished.

view previous comments

Janine Spiess Unions have made a huge difference in our country. Unfortunately some bigger unions have given the public a negative idea of what a union does. When you discuss unions with friends, there are more negative stories than positive. My father was part of a union in the 60's and it made a huge difference in the working conditions. They do help us but I ...See More

Jun 9, 2011

B. Smith I agree... The unions have made significant changes in the workplace... But states are starting to take away their power and where will that leave us?

On 6/09/11, Janine Spiess wrote: > Unions have made a huge difference in our country. > Unfortunately some bigger unions have given the public a > negative idea of what a union does...See More

Jun 9, 2011

UFT is fighting for the soul of education

by Arthur Getzel

Jun 9, 2011

What is happening now in New York is a fight to save public education from those who wish to take away what the little piece of pie that we educators have carved for ourselves over the last half a century. If the Mayor succeeds in laying off teachers when money is really available, the privateers will win. Most NYC teachers went into education as a...See More

by Ed Wyrwas

Jun 9, 2011

I think that many good point for and against teacher unions have been presented. My concern is that we as a nation always have exhibited knee jerk reactions to current events

Marsha On 6/09/11, Ed Wyrwas wrote: > I think that many good point for and against teacher unions > have been presented. My concern is that we as a nation > always have exhibited knee jerk reactions to current events

Ed, tell me some good points against teacher unions

Jun 17, 2011

by Terry

Jun 9, 2011

In Georgia it is illegal for teachers to unionize. We have 2 teacher associations--PAGE (Professional Association of Georgia Educators) and GAE (Georgia Association of Educators). Of the 2 GAE is the strongest in the state and has been established longer.

by Arlene Pitts

Jun 9, 2011

I worked in Wisconsin for the Milwaukee Public Schools for 13 years. For most of those years, the union negotiations were 3 to 6 years behind and thus were pay increases and any other benefit changes. Governor Tommy Thompson pass a law making it illegal for teachers to strike. The union was virtually powerless, though in place. They did eventually ...See More

Teacher Unions: Why the Hate?

by In Teachers.Net Gazette

Jun 9, 2011

National Hall of Fame teacher inductee Alan Haskvitz looks at the reasons for negative feelings about teacher unions, and offers recommendations for improving their image and positive impact.

The news is full of articles expressing hate for teacher unions. From inane comments posted on Yahoo Answers, to newsletters from conservative organi...See More

My state teachers union was not worth spit

by VET

Jun 11, 2011

The only thing they could be depended on was to raise rates every year.

The one time I called to ask them for the help they should have provided, no one ever bothered to return my call.

view previous comments

paula We have monthly meetings, a calendar of meeting days for the year, and an agenda for our meetings.

Generally the meetings last about 1 1/2 to 2 hours. We have topics, discuss our budget, and then have time to discuss site issues.

Our district rep is paid, full time. Our president is a teacher and works a 75% contract so that she ...See More

Jul 13, 2011

Sally The three union reps at my large high school do NOT get paid. All of them are regular full time classroom teachers who volunteer and are elected by their fellow teachers to be reps. Usually, whoever runs gets automatically elected because it is a difficult and time consuming volunteer position. Bless them for taking the time and making the effort! ...See More

Nov 8, 2012

Union, good for me

by paula

Jun 11, 2011

I am an older teacher. I have been on our campus since it opened 14 years ago. I have been teaching in my district for 22 years. I am at the top of my salary schedule. I started teaching late, so I am "older", no doubt about it.

The younger, more energetic teachers are losing their positions due to budget cutbacks, losing 20-1, etc.
...See More

view previous comments

Reality Wow, you want the UNION to do a LOT while collecting no dues, eh? Tenure is one thing, UNION membership is another. IN a real union (one with collective bargaining rights!) members have a variety of benefits. Whether they are tenured or not. Of course the scope and effectiveness of this varies local to local. But those newbie teachers have a vote a...See More

Aug 3, 2012

anon "Competence" has nothing to do with it in terms of getting rid of teachers. In fact, administrative law is so full of holes principals can get rid of anybody they want. Districts can and do manipulate the legal process, and teachers have NO recourse whatsoever.

"Tenure" is better than nothing, but let's not pretend teachers have any real ...See More"Competence" has nothing to do with it in terms of getting rid of teachers. In fact, administrative law is so full of holes principals can get rid of anybody they want. Districts can and do manipulate the legal process, and teachers have NO recourse whatsoever.

"Tenure" is better than nothing, but let's not pretend teachers have any real rights at all in the workplace. They don't. "Tenure," which isn't real tenure anyway but merely civil service protections identical to what police and fire receive, actually helps school districts by reducing the number of civil suits against them as it puts a brake on principals' worst impulses. However, once a principal or other administrator targets a teacher, it is about impossible to prevail.

Meanwhile, it is virtually impossible to fire a principal or other administrator in this country.

On 8/03/12, Reality wrote: > > Wow, you want the UNION to do a LOT while collecting no dues, eh? > Tenure is one thing, UNION membership is another. > IN a real union (one with collective bargaining rights!) members have a > variety of benefits. Whether they are tenured or not. > Of course the scope and effectiveness of this varies local to local. > But those newbie teachers have a vote at the union, same as the veterans. > And hopefully are working WITH the union, not just sitting back expecting > some dues paid to take care of their every concern throughout their career. > It is silly IMO to think that a UNION should be in the job of observing > and rating teachers, isn't that the job of the administration. Unions are > busy enough negotiating contracts, filing grievences, and keeping an eye > on those administrators who may or may not be doing their job of > observing, counseling, providing improvement plans when necessary, and > also giving those unsat ratings to people who deserve to get one and get > out! > Of course they can still get rid of the incompetent after they have > tenure, it is just a bit more involved. But read your tenure laws, and > also the Union bylaws. > > > > On 10/26/11, In general, I'm a big union supporter wrote: >> But I do believe that the FULL protection of the union should kick in >> with the very first dues payment. In our district, non-tenured teachers >> pay the same dues as everybody else, but if they have a problem, here's >> the union: "Oops! Sorry, you don't have tenure. Nothing we can do." >> >> I also think it should be incumbent upon the unions to identify the >> really lousiest of the lousy teachers and freaking KICK THEM OUT OF THE >> UNION! That would be in everybody's best interest, as it would benefit >> the students, save the unions a lot of wasted time and energy trying to >> protect the schlubbos, AND give the unions a LOT more credibility with >> school officials and the public at large. >>

Aug 6, 2012

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