concern – corporal punishment – Teachers.Net (AZ Teachers)

Join Teachers.Net

Chatboards

Recent Groups

AZ Teachers

MEMBERS

7 Members

+ Join Group

Pinned Posts

ALLAll Teachers

Teachers.Net LIVE CHAT Support group - Tues eve!

Featured Jobs

Full-timeMontessori Teacher

Maple Ridge, British Columbia, Canada

TemporaryTeachers, rural schools

Peace River North School District

Full-timeHead Teacher: 2nd/3rd Grades – Mills College Children’s School

Mills College

Teaching Jobs on Teachers.Net

Featured Job special only $39!

https://teachers.net/jobs

Become a Teachers.Net sponsor!

Arizona Teachers Chatboard

concern - corporal punishment

by Anonymous

Feb 26, 2016

Context: I'm a second year teacher. I had a meeting w/ my principal where we discussed a parent email, how I handled it (not well - and the conversation got heated) and my classroom management and consequences. I mentioned that a consequence I have is that the students miss recess and practice walking laps around the quad in front of the building near the play ground. Below was the exchange and her response. I've honestly been researching corporal punishment because that assertion made my hairs stand up but am still finding trouble equating it to walking laps. Please read below and tell me if I'm wrong and why. I asked the principal and she was of NO HELP! So I sent this email to HR for guidance on the issue.

Good morning, I'm writing this email out of genuine concern and curiosity regarding corporal punishment. Yesterday, 2/25/16 I had a meeting with my principal wherein, among other things, I explained to her one of my class' negative consequences that I take recess and requ...See MoreContext: I'm a second year teacher. I had a meeting w/ my principal where we discussed a parent email, how I handled it (not well - and the conversation got heated) and my classroom management and consequences. I mentioned that a consequence I have is that the students miss recess and practice walking laps around the quad in front of the building near the play ground. Below was the exchange and her response. I've honestly been researching corporal punishment because that assertion made my hairs stand up but am still finding trouble equating it to walking laps. Please read below and tell me if I'm wrong and why. I asked the principal and she was of NO HELP! So I sent this email to HR for guidance on the issue.

Good morning, I'm writing this email out of genuine concern and curiosity regarding corporal punishment. Yesterday, 2/25/16 I had a meeting with my principal wherein, among other things, I explained to her one of my class' negative consequences that I take recess and require that the students walk laps around the quad in lieu of running around, playing and having fun with their friends. My honest rationale being: the students are still getting physical activity during their recess time, it's just less enjoyable. Again, it's a negative consequence that I'm enforcing. However, [Principal] quickly stopped me and said that I couldn't do that because it was considered "corporal punishment," that I could be faced with a lawsuit and equated it to requiring the children do push ups or hitting a child. She also said that "I don't know what medical problems the children may have." I honestly didn't see the comparison and when I asked to expound on that further, she claimed it was "demeaning," but really couldn't (or didn't) offer much beyond that. Obviously it's not my intention or desire to inflict pain upon the children, but I don't see how requiring them to do physical activity during recess time is considered corporal punishment. I just feel like if the claim that I'm utilizing corporal punishment and implying I'm abusing children is going to be made, it merits a full discussion. I even stayed up last night Googling it and still couldn't really see how it equates.

As an HR rep, could you explain to me what the policy is and/or why I'm incorrect?

What do you think? She equated practicing walking at recess to corporal punishment and used "making students do push ups or hitting children" as her comparison.

Thanks, Anonymous

Comment

(6)

report post

view previous comments

Anonymous On 2/26/16, Anonymous wrote: > Context: I'm a second year teacher. I had a meeting w/ my principal where we discussed a parent email, how > I handled it (not well - and the conversation got heated) and my classroom management and consequences. I > mentioned that a consequence I have is that the students miss recess and practice walking lap...See MoreOn 2/26/16, Anonymous wrote: > Context: I'm a second year teacher. I had a meeting w/ my principal where we discussed a parent email, how > I handled it (not well - and the conversation got heated) and my classroom management and consequences. I > mentioned that a consequence I have is that the students miss recess and practice walking laps around the > quad in front of the building near the play ground. Below was the exchange and her response. I've honestly > been researching corporal punishment because that assertion made my hairs stand up but am still finding > trouble equating it to walking laps. Please read below and tell me if I'm wrong and why. I asked the > principal and she was of NO HELP! So I sent this email to HR for guidance on the issue. > > > Good morning, > I'm writing this email out of genuine concern and curiosity regarding corporal punishment. Yesterday, > 2/25/16 I had a meeting with my principal wherein, among other things, I explained to her one of my > class' negative consequences that I take recess and require that the students walk laps around the quad in > lieu of running around, playing and having fun with their friends. My honest rationale being: the students > are still getting physical activity during their recess time, it's just less enjoyable. Again, it's a > negative consequence that I'm enforcing. However, [Principal] quickly stopped me and said that I couldn't > do that because it was considered "corporal punishment," that I could be faced with a lawsuit and equated > it to requiring the children do push ups or hitting a child. She also said that "I don't know what medical > problems the children may have." I honestly didn't see the comparison and when I asked to expound on that > further, she claimed it was "demeaning," but really couldn't (or didn't) offer much beyond that. Obviously > it's not my intention or desire to inflict pain upon the children, but I don't see how requiring them to do > physical activity during recess time is considered corporal punishment. I just feel like if the claim that > I'm utilizing corporal punishment and implying I'm abusing children is going to be made, it merits a full > discussion. I even stayed up last night Googling it and still couldn't really see how it equates. > > > As an HR rep, could you explain to me what the policy is and/or why I'm incorrect? > > > > What do you think? > She equated practicing walking at recess to corporal punishment and used "making students do push ups or > hitting children" as her comparison. > > Thanks, > Anonymous > > Several points:

1. Your principal tells you to do something; Do it. It isn't a suggestion. You don't have to like it. Just do the job that you were hired to do to the satisfaction of the person who can fire you.

2. After 38 years of teaching physical education, it never ceases to amaze me when a classroom teacher uses physical activity as a punishment. I've had teachers send students to me asking me to have them run laps as punishment for something that the student did or did not do in the classroom. My response is to send a student to the teacher asking that teacher to assign a writing assignment as punishment for something that the student did in physical education class. Sadly, some don't get the message, so I need to be direct.

We WANT students to enjoy physical activity for the duration of their lives. Assigning it as punishment sends the wrong message about physical activity.

Yes it's corporal punishment. Check with your lawyer and buy teacher insurance.

Feb 26, 2016

report post

james16 Hello, In my opinion I would have to say that I disagree with your approach with the practice of walking laps. I have been teaching for over 20 years and I think that approach to corrective behavior does not work anymore. Yes, in the past that kind of technique was used and may have been effective, but it is no longer considered to be effective. ...See MoreHello, In my opinion I would have to say that I disagree with your approach with the practice of walking laps. I have been teaching for over 20 years and I think that approach to corrective behavior does not work anymore. Yes, in the past that kind of technique was used and may have been effective, but it is no longer considered to be effective.

Just like the response from the physical education teacher having other teachers give laps created dislike by the students for doing laps, I have seen the same thing being done with math. Teachers have given extra math to students as punishment for something non-math related and that created a sense of students not liking math because they associated the punishment with math.

My advice would be to find techniques that focus upon corrective action related to the wrong that was done. Depending upon the age, sometimes a group discussion to address the concerns is enough. When other students discuss what is wrong with the behavior, the student in the wrong may correct the action due to peer pressure. Also, this takes the focus off of the teacher.

If you provided an example of a specific wrong, maybe I could offer an alternative strategy. I will admit I have had very few classroom management issues over the years. I feel there are a couple of general guidelines which help reduce issues. 1) Make sure the expectations are addressed at the beginning and are clear. Co-constructing expectations has greater power because the students themselves were involved with the creation. 2) Make sure the consequences are fairly addressed to all. Students will cry foul if two students receive different consequences for the same action. 3) Treat your students with care and respect and they will be more likely to show that same kind of care and respect back. Many times I have seen new teachers start off from a power stance. Many students do not react well to this kind of stance.

I hope this helps.

On 2/26/16, Anonymous wrote: > Context: I'm a second year teacher. I had a meeting w/ my principal where we discussed a parent email, how > I handled it (not well - and the conversation got heated) and my classroom management and consequences. I > mentioned that a consequence I have is that the students miss recess and practice walking laps around the > quad in front of the building near the play ground. Below was the exchange and her response. I've honestly > been researching corporal punishment because that assertion made my hairs stand up but am still finding > trouble equating it to walking laps. Please read below and tell me if I'm wrong and why. I asked the > principal and she was of NO HELP! So I sent this email to HR for guidance on the issue. > > > Good morning, > I'm writing this email out of genuine concern and curiosity regarding corporal punishment. Yesterday, > 2/25/16 I had a meeting with my principal wherein, among other things, I explained to her one of my > class' negative consequences that I take recess and require that the students walk laps around the quad in > lieu of running around, playing and having fun with their friends. My honest rationale being: the students > are still getting physical activity during their recess time, it's just less enjoyable. Again, it's a > negative consequence that I'm enforcing. However, [Principal] quickly stopped me and said that I couldn't > do that because it was considered "corporal punishment," that I could be faced with a lawsuit and equated > it to requiring the children do push ups or hitting a child. She also said that "I don't know what medical > problems the children may have." I honestly didn't see the comparison and when I asked to expound on that > further, she claimed it was "demeaning," but really couldn't (or didn't) offer much beyond that. Obviously > it's not my intention or desire to inflict pain upon the children, but I don't see how requiring them to do > physical activity during recess time is considered corporal punishment. I just feel like if the claim that > I'm utilizing corporal punishment and implying I'm abusing children is going to be made, it merits a full > discussion. I even stayed up last night Googling it and still couldn't really see how it equates. > > > As an HR rep, could you explain to me what the policy is and/or why I'm incorrect? > > > > What do you think? > She equated practicing walking at recess to corporal punishment and used "making students do push ups or > hitting children" as her comparison. > > Thanks, > Anonymous > >

Feb 27, 2016

report post

Your principal is wrong.. Yes corporal means bodily literally, but corporal punishment in schools means hitting kids. Making kids move but be silent during recess is not illegal, nor is it unreasonable. Of course common sense is needed; I have severe breathing issues and I can't walk easily when I have a severe attack..but then again, I don't/can't go to work when that happ...See MoreYes corporal means bodily literally, but corporal punishment in schools means hitting kids. Making kids move but be silent during recess is not illegal, nor is it unreasonable. Of course common sense is needed; I have severe breathing issues and I can't walk easily when I have a severe attack..but then again, I don't/can't go to work when that happens. You have the right to do this. On 2/26/16, Coach Collins wrote: > Hello, > > I'm very sorry to hear about the troubles > you've been having. As a second year > teacher, you will make mistakes and this > isn't the worst one. > > Corporal punishment is any form of > physical punishment. Whether it's > striking a child, making him do push-ups, > compelling him to walk laps, turning the > A/C too low or high, or spraying him with > water, educators are not permitted to > physically punish students in those > states that have outlawed it. > > That being said, teachers use these types > of punishments in every school where I've > taught and very rarely are they > disciplined for minor punishments like > making a child stand up and hold his > books for the period or making him walk > laps. > > Our purpose as educators is to teach > children, not punish them. We should > provide consequences for wrong choices, > but punishing children creates hostility > and contempt, putting us at odds with > them rather than being on their side. > I've never hit a student, but we did > spank our own kids when they were little. > We realized it made the situation worse > and created resentment. Also it didn't > work. > > Yes, physical activity is good for kids, > but not as punishment. Using it as > punishment may discourage them from being > physically active because of the negative > associations they may form with it. > > Hope this has been helpful. Good luck. > > On 2/26/16, Anonymous wrote: >> Context: I'm a second year teacher. I > had a meeting w/ my principal where we > discussed a parent email, how >> I handled it (not well - and the > conversation got heated) and my classroom > management and consequences. I >> mentioned that a consequence I have is > that the students miss recess and > practice walking laps around the >> quad in front of the building near the > play ground. Below was the exchange and > her response. I've honestly >> been researching corporal punishment > because that assertion made my hairs > stand up but am still finding >> trouble equating it to walking laps. > Please read below and tell me if I'm > wrong and why. I asked the >> principal and she was of NO HELP! So I > sent this email to HR for guidance on the > issue. >> >> >> Good morning, >> I'm writing this email out of genuine > concern and curiosity regarding corporal > punishment. Yesterday, >> 2/25/16 I had a meeting with my > principal wherein, among other things, I > explained to her one of my >> class' negative consequences that I > take recess and require that the students > walk laps around the quad in >> lieu of running around, playing and > having fun with their friends. My honest > rationale being: the students >> are still getting physical activity > during their recess time, it's just less > enjoyable. Again, it's a >> negative consequence that I'm > enforcing. However, [Principal] quickly > stopped me and said that I couldn't >> do that because it was considered > "corporal punishment," that I could be > faced with a lawsuit and equated >> it to requiring the children do push > ups or hitting a child. She also said > that "I don't know what medical >> problems the children may have." I > honestly didn't see the comparison and > when I asked to expound on that >> further, she claimed it was > "demeaning," but really couldn't (or > didn't) offer much beyond that. Obviously >> it's not my intention or desire to > inflict pain upon the children, but I > don't see how requiring them to do >> physical activity during recess time is > considered corporal punishment. I just > feel like if the claim that >> I'm utilizing corporal punishment and > implying I'm abusing children is going to > be made, it merits a full >> discussion. I even stayed up last night > Googling it and still couldn't really see > how it equates. >> >> >> As an HR rep, could you explain to me > what the policy is and/or why I'm > incorrect? >> >> >> >> What do you think? >> She equated practicing walking at > recess to corporal punishment and used > "making students do push ups or >> hitting children" as her comparison. >> >> Thanks, >> Anonymous >> >>

Feb 27, 2016

report post

dm Anyways, I looked it up--could be a faulty source--but AZ is one state where corporal punishment is not illegal.

On 2/27/16, Your principal is wrong.. wrote: > Yes corporal means bodily literally, but corporal punishment > in schools means hitting kids. Making kids move but be silent > during recess is not illegal, nor is it unrea...See MoreAnyways, I looked it up--could be a faulty source--but AZ is one state where corporal punishment is not illegal.

On 2/27/16, Your principal is wrong.. wrote: > Yes corporal means bodily literally, but corporal punishment > in schools means hitting kids. Making kids move but be silent > during recess is not illegal, nor is it unreasonable. Of > course common sense is needed; I have severe breathing issues > and I can't walk easily when I have a severe attack..but then > again, I don't/can't go to work when that happens. You have > the right to do this. On 2/26/16, Coach Collins wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I'm very sorry to hear about the troubles >> you've been having. As a second year >> teacher, you will make mistakes and this >> isn't the worst one. >> >> Corporal punishment is any form of >> physical punishment. Whether it's >> striking a child, making him do push-ups, >> compelling him to walk laps, turning the >> A/C too low or high, or spraying him with >> water, educators are not permitted to >> physically punish students in those >> states that have outlawed it. >> >> That being said, teachers use these types >> of punishments in every school where I've >> taught and very rarely are they >> disciplined for minor punishments like >> making a child stand up and hold his >> books for the period or making him walk >> laps. >> >> Our purpose as educators is to teach >> children, not punish them. We should >> provide consequences for wrong choices, >> but punishing children creates hostility >> and contempt, putting us at odds with >> them rather than being on their side. >> I've never hit a student, but we did >> spank our own kids when they were little. >> We realized it made the situation worse >> and created resentment. Also it didn't >> work. >> >> Yes, physical activity is good for kids, >> but not as punishment. Using it as >> punishment may discourage them from being >> physically active because of the negative >> associations they may form with it. >> >> Hope this has been helpful. Good luck. >> >> On 2/26/16, Anonymous wrote: >>> Context: I'm a second year teacher. I >> had a meeting w/ my principal where we >> discussed a parent email, how >>> I handled it (not well - and the >> conversation got heated) and my classroom >> management and consequences. I >>> mentioned that a consequence I have is >> that the students miss recess and >> practice walking laps around the >>> quad in front of the building near the >> play ground. Below was the exchange and >> her response. I've honestly >>> been researching corporal punishment >> because that assertion made my hairs >> stand up but am still finding >>> trouble equating it to walking laps. >> Please read below and tell me if I'm >> wrong and why. I asked the >>> principal and she was of NO HELP! So I >> sent this email to HR for guidance on the >> issue. >>> >>> >>> Good morning, >>> I'm writing this email out of genuine >> concern and curiosity regarding corporal >> punishment. Yesterday, >>> 2/25/16 I had a meeting with my >> principal wherein, among other things, I >> explained to her one of my >>> class' negative consequences that I >> take recess and require that the students >> walk laps around the quad in >>> lieu of running around, playing and >> having fun with their friends. My honest >> rationale being: the students >>> are still getting physical activity >> during their recess time, it's just less >> enjoyable. Again, it's a >>> negative consequence that I'm >> enforcing. However, [Principal] quickly >> stopped me and said that I couldn't >>> do that because it was considered >> "corporal punishment," that I could be >> faced with a lawsuit and equated >>> it to requiring the children do push >> ups or hitting a child. She also said >> that "I don't know what medical >>> problems the children may have." I >> honestly didn't see the comparison and >> when I asked to expound on that >>> further, she claimed it was >> "demeaning," but really couldn't (or >> didn't) offer much beyond that. Obviously >>> it's not my intention or desire to >> inflict pain upon the children, but I >> don't see how requiring them to do >>> physical activity during recess time is >> considered corporal punishment. I just >> feel like if the claim that >>> I'm utilizing corporal punishment and >> implying I'm abusing children is going to >> be made, it merits a full >>> discussion. I even stayed up last night >> Googling it and still couldn't really see >> how it equates. >>> >>> >>> As an HR rep, could you explain to me >> what the policy is and/or why I'm >> incorrect? >>> >>> >>> >>> What do you think? >>> She equated practicing walking at >> recess to corporal punishment and used >> "making students do push ups or >>> hitting children" as her comparison. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Anonymous >>> >>>

Mar 3, 2016

report post

a parent Corporal punishment in schools in Arizona is not illegal
but that does not make it right or something you should
do.

Coach posted a perfect response as did a couple others.

Apr 15, 2016

report post