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Classroom Discipline Chatboard

Why are they like this???

by Elena

Oct 29, 2010

Hello all,

I have been teaching for 18 years. I am in an excellent high school right now and currently have no discipline issues. This is my sixth year in this school. However, it wasn't always like this.

Over the course of my career, I had experienced constant discipline problems in my classroom. Most of these schools were poor, low achieving schools. For me, teaching at the elementary level was a disaster. I was the one who could never have an orderly classroom or a smooth line of children going to lunch. It was humiliating. I would see young twenty-something teachers who just rolled out of college have a more peaceful classroom than I did. A few administrators and peer teachers who observed me would remark, "I don't know why you have these problems. You say and do the same things as a teacher with excellent classroom management but you don't get the same results."

What am I getting at here? There must be more to classroom management than meets the eye. Whe...See MoreHello all,

I have been teaching for 18 years. I am in an excellent high school right now and currently have no discipline issues. This is my sixth year in this school. However, it wasn't always like this.

Over the course of my career, I had experienced constant discipline problems in my classroom. Most of these schools were poor, low achieving schools. For me, teaching at the elementary level was a disaster. I was the one who could never have an orderly classroom or a smooth line of children going to lunch. It was humiliating. I would see young twenty-something teachers who just rolled out of college have a more peaceful classroom than I did. A few administrators and peer teachers who observed me would remark, "I don't know why you have these problems. You say and do the same things as a teacher with excellent classroom management but you don't get the same results."

What am I getting at here? There must be more to classroom management than meets the eye. When you have these problems, they give you the cookbook approach. "Be firm and set forth your rules and procedures at the very beginning...." "Be organized." "Communicate with parents..." etc. etc. etc. Alas, the recipe sometimes falls flat. That's when administrators take an extreme dislike to you and that is what I don't understand. Their first impulse is to put you on an improvement plan and get you out of there. There has to be a better way.

First of all, I read a lot and realized I lacked "withitness" or the ability to practice extreme vigilance and have eyes in the back of my head. Some of us would be great teachers but lack this extreme type of focusing.

Fortunately I later found myself in a school with high- performing students and dedicated parents. After being in the school for a few years I became a fixture and gained classroom control. Keep in mind that I didn't do much of anything different. I just had different types of students and the opportunity to stay in one school where the kids got used to me. With these students, I don't have to have my eyes constantly glued to them in case someone decides to set the garbage can on fire. When given a project, they will work on their own and get it done. No, I don't sit and read the newspaper while they work, but I can teach in a more relaxed way.

I know this is rambling but I wonder how many teachers out there are on improvement plans when all they need is a different environment or a chance to be in the school for a few years. Some teachers do better on the elementary level; others like me do better in high school. Why don't administrators take more time to evaluate this? Why do they express such dislike for us? Why aren't there support groups for teachers having difficulties so that they can feel they are not alone?

Just some of my thoughts...

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Leah Thanks for sharing Elena

> Why don't administrators take more time to evaluate this? They don't want to spend the time or perhaps they are really too busy. >Why do they express such dislike for us? It's not fair, but they have sooo many teachers to choose from that they take the easy route. >Why aren't there support groups for te...See More

Oct 29, 2010

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TeacherMom Thank you, Thank yo, Thank you. I am so glad that you voice what some of us know and not able to describe.

I had posted this on another chat board and want to share with you about school culture as important fact in teacher success.

My daughter's 4th grade teacher have excellent system of rewarding. After several weeks of schoo...See MoreThank you, Thank yo, Thank you. I am so glad that you voice what some of us know and not able to describe.

I had posted this on another chat board and want to share with you about school culture as important fact in teacher success.

My daughter's 4th grade teacher have excellent system of rewarding. After several weeks of school, she announces that she will be sponsoring a math club. She also e-mails and speaks with parents during parent-teacher conference about the club. In order to QUALIFY to join the math club she requires 90 average in 1st nine weeks. (there were 60 students with 89 average who did not get to get in. The club meets once a month for an hour after the class. The student must keep 90 average to stay in the club, can not have any referrals and must be in good academic as well as behavioral standing.

She also have 100 poster where student receiving 100 on tests get star next to her name, creative ways to teach and firm hand. She a also have a supporting administrator who stands behind her. The school culture is that of praising academics while having fun. Each classroom teacher rewards her students by choosing Weekly ship shape laker(student gets ship shape to bring home after being recognized in classroom), laker of the month (each laker of the month student's picture goes on bulletin board outside the cafeteria for everyone to get inspired, the student gets her picture taken in presence of AP/principal gets a token pencil, a small gift and hand shake along with pride. The school has partnered with local business so after each 9 week grade report student with all A or A?B receives coupon for a gallon ice cream from publix, 15 tockens from chuck-e-cheese etc. Principal writes notes to student when they get selected for special program, win science fair and such.

The school rewards achievement by encouraging students to strive to do better by respecting them. The students are allowed to bring book with them in cafeteria and can read while having lunch (noise reduction!) Honors day is celebrated at grade level and everyone in class Not just honor students attend that. I can go on an on about how students are recognized for their achievements, encouraged to be owners of their education and behavior issues are reduced by having culture of CAN DO attitute.

The school is run by teachers and administrators not by parents. The parent participate by volunteering in classrooms, helping with clubs and organizing events. PTO meetings are filled so if you are 10 minutes late, you will have to stand in corner or in hallway.

By creating schoolwide positive rewards, allowing students to be responsible for their own actions and experiencing consequences, we can help eachother. out.

Oct 29, 2010

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Sara Your thoughts are excellent ones. No teacher is the right teacher for every school. No school is the right school for every teacher to be teaching in.

And yes, teachers struggling with classroom management are given formulaic answers. And no answer is the right answer for every teacher. I entered middle school teaching in my early 40s and ...See MoreYour thoughts are excellent ones. No teacher is the right teacher for every school. No school is the right school for every teacher to be teaching in.

And yes, teachers struggling with classroom management are given formulaic answers. And no answer is the right answer for every teacher. I entered middle school teaching in my early 40s and watched my two male team members 'bellow' at kids. They could yell without any anger in their voices. It worked. When I tried it, it didn't work. At all.

Anger doesn't work for me - students look at me like I'm the crazy one when I get angry and they don't get better. They take me less seriously, not more seriously, when I'd get angry. But I got good advice from my principal who said, "Every good teacher needs to find their own voice, their own stance, what works for them. And they need to find it again when they switch grades or switch schools."

Do all actors use the same method? Do they all act the same way? Actors are chosen to play certain roles given inherent qualities they seem to have.

I too can't teach elementary school but I can teach middle school. In middle school, I can switch seamlessly from 5th through 8th but I do switch what stance I chose - I don't present myself in the same way in a 5th grade classroom as an 8th grade classroom.

And some teachers including me shouldn't teach in a high-risk urban school and some teachers bomb in the well-ordered charter school I now teach in. They come in gang-busters and it's not necessary. They walk all over students for next to nothing run of the mill stuff. They should be teaching somewhere else - maybe a military school?

There is more to classroom management than meets the eye - it's a delicate thing. It's part audience control, part crowd control, part teaching. And there's Far more to helping a teacher get better at it than what they do.

The reasons there aren't support groups is because not managing your classes well is thought to be almost shameful - it's like you're a complete failure if you can't manage your classes well. Conversely, teachers who do manage their classes very well are lauded even if they still can't teach for beans.

> > What am I getting at here? There must be more to classroom > management than meets the eye. When you have these > problems, they give you the cookbook approach. "Be firm > and set forth your rules and procedures at the very > beginning...." "Be organized." "Communicate with > parents..." etc. etc. etc. Alas, the recipe sometimes > falls flat. That's when administrators take an extreme > dislike to you and that is what I don't understand. Their > first impulse is to put you on an improvement plan and get > you out of there. There has to be a better way. > > First of all, I read a lot and realized I > lacked "withitness" or the ability to practice extreme > vigilance and have eyes in the back of my head. Some of us > would be great teachers but lack this extreme type of > focusing. > > > I know this is rambling but I wonder how many teachers out > there are on improvement plans when all they need is a > different environment or a chance to be in the school for a > few years. Some teachers do better on the elementary > level; others like me do better in high school. Why don't > administrators take more time to evaluate this? Why do > they express such dislike for us? Why aren't there support > groups for teachers having difficulties so that they can > feel they are not alone? > > Just some of my thoughts... >

Oct 29, 2010

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Judith Dear Elena,

I think part of the problem with principals not understanding different teaching styles and different discipline styles is that principals don't get enough training in personnel management, and that principals are just people with a different degree and certification.

I came to teaching with a Bachelor of Business Ad...See MoreDear Elena,

I think part of the problem with principals not understanding different teaching styles and different discipline styles is that principals don't get enough training in personnel management, and that principals are just people with a different degree and certification.

I came to teaching with a Bachelor of Business Administration, after an 8 year stint as an officer in the Army. I have worked in schools with real jerks as principals, and in schools where the principal was a teacher who got a masters in administration and switched roles. Most of the time, if the principal is a former teacher, they are much more rational at managing a bunch of teachers. They are also much more rational at enforcing student discipline. No absolutes, here, but most of the time.

I have tried a lot of supposedly foolproof discipline programs. Either I'm a bigger fool than they bargained on, or the plan was a poor fit for my personality. I spend, and have spent, time every summer and throughout the school year reflecting on how to refine and revise my classroom discipline. Sometimes, something works. Sometimes nothing works. A lot depends on the students I get that year.

This year, I'm working with two new things. One is the 'Clip Chart.' Kids start with 3 points for the day. They do something good, and they move their clothespin up, for more points. They mess up, they move their clothespin down. They can move back up if they make better choices, and will move down again for poor choices. I add the points they have at the end of the day to a sticker chart in their parent communication folder. When the child earns 50 points, or a multiple of 50 points, they get a trip to the prize box. Google 'Clip Chart Discipline Plan' for more information.

The second thing I'm using is some of the material I found at the 'Whole Brain Teaching' site. I'm going to a conference the site is sponsoring in Yucaipa, CA next weekend, and I'm really looking forward to learning more, and seeing the experts in action. I am still feeling my way with the material, but I can say that the 'Class-Yes' technique works with my 2nd grade kids, and the instant attention the students focus on me when I use it has dazzled some of the other teachers in our hallways.

All I can say is: Remember, principals are human, too, and just as fallible as the rest of us.

Judi

Oct 29, 2010

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Mshope To the OP,

I think you are right. It is not always the teacher. I think the biggest thing that helps me in the classroom is that I can be entertaining and I have a passion for what I am teaching. When I am teaching something that I feel is stupid or boring, then I lose them...Being funny and slightly shocking at times works for me.
...See More

Oct 31, 2010

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